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Board index » All Posts (beharpst)




Re: Packard employees question
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BH
Owen_Dyneto -

With all due respect (and nothing personal at all), the reprints you've cited were accomplished decades ago. However, what did the clubs do with the proceeds from such projects?

Except for a few additional volumes of the Service Counselor and reprints of some minor marketing brochures, I've seen nothing new in terms of printed matter from PAC. The only Service Letters I saw available from PAC were for prewar models - when a gaping hole has existed, for decades, in terms of Service Technical Bulletins for postwar cars. I don't believe for a NY minute that the club could not have pulled that material together and had it reprinted.

Through my own private efforts, over the years, I assembled a complete set of photocopies of STBs AND Studebaker Service Bulletins on the V8 cars, but was lucky enough to also acquire a nearly complete set of original STBs and General Service Bulletins dating back to 1952, plus assorted parts bulletins - all from a single estate. Yet, I will probably put everything except the V8 stuff on eBay, next winter, to people who are still looking for original material.

Meanwhile, how much inventory of Centennial souvenirs is PAC still sitting on?

For a variety of reasons, I couldn't see supporting PAC with my dues any longer and let my membership lapse last year. IMHO, that club has fallen out of touch of what Packard owners need from a club. Never mind getting the scoop on a top-secret project to produce V12 Packards for 1965 (that never happened), "tea and scones" just don't cut it.

Yet, in spite of all that has transpired, know that, over the years, I had purchased not only the '55-'56 material that PAC had reprinted, but manuals for earlier series, from which the V8 cars were derived. However, I'd never copy a reprint and upload it here. As best as I can tell, only original material has been scanned and donated here.

Posted on: 2007/4/10 23:18
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Re: pushbutton transmission
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BH
Oops! I couldn't tell from the public post made here by Bob that there was private action going on behind the scenes on this.

Yet, I thank MrPushbutton for posting his findings, fixes, and excellent pix. I wouldn't be intimidated one bit about fixing a problem like this myself, but did not know that the contact fingers were available separately.

I can understand that the tangle of wires and all the lines in the schematic is a lot for some people to take in, and I should, thus, advise that Studbeaker published a Service Bulletin in 1957 that provides some of the more common checks and and fixes. Perhaps someday, we'll get a scan of an original to post here.

Posted on: 2007/4/10 19:53
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Re: Packard employees question
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BH
Nick -

You asked a reasonable question about finding a good source, in print, for financial information, and you got good advice about the two best books published on Packard.

Though smaller in size and page count, and with comparatively few pictures, Ward's book is more objectively-written and paints the company history against a fuller background of what was going on in the industry/economy/culture. While the Kimes book is considered a bible by many Packard enthusaiasts (including me), Ward's book was made required reading by business schools in some unversities - released in a less costly softcover edition for that very purpose.

Understand that many of us here have participated in other forums, where some newcomers took the position that they shouldn't have to buy a book or manual, but expected us to provide all the answers. I can't speak for others, but I'm not interested in retyping the information, word-for-word, from a manual - especially one that I had to buy to get the answers I needed. Pose a similar question of any automotive library, and you'll likely be told of their research fee; but if you go to that library, you'll generally be permitted to research it yourself for much less.

It was that situation that lead to the founding and has fueled the rapid growth of this site. Many of us (including John Shireman) have generously donated scans of original material from our personal libraries, plus plenty of work in putting addtiional features together, and field questions in these Forums - without expecting one dime in return. My position is that if I donate time and info, maybe others will too, and maybe they will contribute something "new" to me that I can learn from.

If you stick around, I think you'll find that most of us here are working class folk, who are working on our hobbies with a very limited budget. Money is always an object. Yet, what doesn't take money still takes a lot of time.

I hope you can see why your reluctance to purchase a book may have irritated an old sore spot, but not overreact to the valid points that John made.

Posted on: 2007/4/10 19:09
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Re: pushbutton transmission
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BH
Hi Bob -

Did you look for and download the AutoLite manual for this system? The documents and articles archived on this site are available at no charge and only require Adobe Acrobat Reader to view and (if needed) print.

AutoLite designed and supplied this system to Packard. If you had trouble finding that manaul, here's a direct link:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=120

Weighing in at just under 4MB, I even downloaded this PDF over my painfully slow dial-up connection.

This document has detailed, step-by-step, troubleshooting procedures and diagnostic charts. In addition to a common 12-volt test light and a small screwdriver (something that every hands-on owner should have), you may need to construct a simple set of tell-tale lights, as described in this manual, from a couple of sockets with twelve volt bulbs.

I only mention this resource because you have given us very little to go by, and remote diagnosis is never easy.

When your "transmission is not shifting in any gear", the first thing you should do is check for voltage at terminal of the circuit breaker that's connected to the control relay ont he left fender splasher; it doesn't matter whether key is on or off. Other than that, it could be a problem with the parking relay (if yours hasn't been removed), the motor-reversing shift relay, system wiring, contact segments, or even the motor itself.

However, do NOT waste time removing the motor until you have properly diagnosed the problem. Report back with your finding and we can try to pick up with where the manual leaves off.

I'm sure MrPushbutton will have some quick answers if you give us something more to go on.

Posted on: 2007/4/9 19:42
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Re: New Member - Help with disassembly of Power Brake Unit
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Boro-

From what I can see of the spring in your pic, I gotta say it looks fairly robust. The springs I've removed from other (unrebuilt) units were much more delicate. I wonder if your spring has already been replaced with some repro as part of a past work by a qualified rebuilder.

The minor kit should include a new poppet for that valve and you should use it. Just hold the existing valve poppet against the seat and depress the spring from the C-washer retainer, and you can slide that retainer out of the groove, near the end of the stem. Then, remove the spring and inspect it for any weak points caused by corrosion (or nicks). During reassembly, be sure to take the extra step or two in the Packard shop manual to install the valve properly and verify that it works. Otherwise, you'll likely end up removing the unit from the car again. (I'm not sure how accessible the valve is with the unit installed. I've removed the reservoir cover with the unit on-car, but the steering column is an obstruction to doing much else.)

Your C-washer retainer doesn't look too bad to me. I suspect any protective plating has merely failed. If you're upgrading to DOT5 (which requires replacing EVERY rubber part in the hydraulic system and flushing the steel lines to remove all traces of DOT3), there will be no problem. If you're sticking with DOT3, then - every few years - you'll wanna siphon the contents of the reservoir and push a fresh pint of brake fluid through the system, via a full bleed, to remove moisture-contaminated fluid from the system - as the reservoir is NOT completely sealed to atmosphere.

Be very thorough about your brake work on any old car - no matter what system it has.

Posted on: 2007/4/9 19:11
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Re: 1956 Packard Patrician Caribbean Clones
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BH
I had heard of the dealer-built "Esquire" editions, but also saw one, in person, at the Centennial Meet in Warren - a two-door hardtop coupe. IIRC, the conversion was rooted in plans by the dealer to make a Caribben heardtop, but when the factory did so for 1956, the dealer came up with the "Esquire" name and even had script plates made to go where the "Caribbean" script would have been.

However, I had not heard that Esquire conversions were made on anything other than a Four Hundred body.

Notice that the subject sedan shows no such evidence of a script plate on the upper front fender. This car is currently listed for sale on eBay, but pix of the interior look like a much more recent type of cloth fabric on the seats. I'd be very reluctant to bid on that car as a collector's item.

I bet Eric will do an even better job with his Pat. The reversible seat cushions might be out of the question, but I'm confident that one could accomplish a treatment on the Patrcian seat that was similar to the all-leather side of the Caribbean cushions.

Meanwhile, I have to agree about the sedan not carrying the tritone scheme very well; light/bright colors make the door window frames stand out like a sore thumb. Darker colors play them down.

Perhaps some of you have heard of the '56 Patrician purchased new by band leader (and marketing force behind the kitchen blender), Fred Waring. He had Carib side trim applied and had the car painted in two-tone - black with some shade of blue/green (perhps Eire Green? )in the area bounded by the Carib side trim. I had opportunity to see this car several years ago, as it had survived in the hands of a private collector in Ohio, but my memories of it car are a bit fuzzy now. I cannot recall whether the roof was left black or also painted blue/green - similar in effect to the two-tone paint schemes on the Executives.

While I prefer '55-'56 Carib convertibles and hardtops in a tritone scheme, I think the two-tone lends itself to the Carib side trim - as evidenced by the attached illustration from a'55 Carib ad. Not sure if I'd like it with top up - which was only available in white.

Attach file:



jpg  (13.08 KB)
103_461ac82656fb5.jpg 499X226 px

Posted on: 2007/4/9 18:17
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Re: New Member - Help with disassembly of Power Brake Unit
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Boro -

The Treadle-Vac is actually a very simply and effective design. It doesn't sound like that spring is your problem.

Upon removal of the reservoir cover, you should see the stem of the compensator port valve tipped at an angle. Again, I suggest you check out the 51-54 Packard Service Manual, which is available here, free, to download:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4

At the very least you should download the Brakes section and study the details of the cross-sectional diagrams, but I'll walk you through it.

When the hydraulic plunger is retracted (by the BIG spring in the vacuum cylinder, when your foot is off the pedal), the washer on the end of the plunger tips the compensator port valve open, form the bottom, to permit brake fluid to move freely between the reservoir and the hydraulic chamber.

Whereas a conventional master cylinder moves fluid by pushing a seal down the cylinder chamber to reduce the volume of that chamber (like a piston in an engine), the Treadle-Vac merely applies the princicpal of displacement in a slightly different manner. Yet, you don't have to be Archimedes to undestand it. Fill your car wash bucket to the rim with water, then roll up your sleeves and put your fist in the bucket, all the way down to the bottom, and you'll see how this type of displacement works.

When you apply your foot to the brake pedal, the plunger moves down into the bore of the hydraulic chamber, and the washer moves away with it, releasing the bottom of the compensator port valve. With that valve closed, the hydraulic chamber is sealed off from the reservoir. As the piston moves further into the bore, the volume of the plunger that is introduced in the the hydraulic chamber will displace an equal amount of brake fluid.

Now, with the compensator port valve closed, and all other seals in working order, the brake fluid has nowhere else to go but into the hydraulic lines - ultimately pushing the shoes against the drums. However, if the compensator port valve spring fails to close the valve (or the seal on that valve goes bad), the displaced fluid goes back into the reservoir, which is vented to atmosphere - hence, shoes don't get applied tot he drums.

Get it? (I think you will.)

The real beauty of the TreadleVac design is that you should never need to have that master cylinder sleeved, like so many other cast-iron designs that are obsolete. Beware, however, of TreadleVac units that been salvaged from Packards that have been sitting in a field for a long time. Placed so low on the these cars, moisture from groundwater will take its toll on the die-cast housing. I have seen some pitted badly enough to leak. As such, I would highly recommend that, prior to reassembly, you coat the outside of the master cylinder housing from your car with a paint that is resistant to brake fluid. Check with suppliers like Eastwood for that.

Posted on: 2007/4/8 10:47
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Re: New Member - Help with disassembly of Power Brake Unit
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Boro -

I've never had a big problem with the TreadleVac unit, myself, and concur with Owen_Dyneto's position that they were used successfully for many years and on many cars.

The NUMBER ONE thing to look out for on these decades-old units (especially from cars that sat, unused, for extended periods) is a pitted hydraulic plunger. Because the seals are held in a fixed position, and the plunger moves through them, a pitted surface will act like a cheese-grater and cause a failure of the seals in short order. A hydraulic failure in ANY single-chambered master cylinder could be catastrophic, but such an event unlikely in a brake system that has been properly gone-through and is properly serviced.

One thing I feel that has often been overlooked in rebuilding these units is the compensator port valve spring. That valve is CRITICAL to hydraulic operation, but the spring is not included in the "minor kit" - not even in an original from Bendix. I have seen this delicate spring corroded in two in a couple of units that I disassembled - cars that hadn't been used in decades. I suspect this happens, over time, because DOT3 is hygroscopic (draws moisture right out of the air) and the reservoir is NOT air-tight (like more modern designs).

Posted on: 2007/4/7 10:26
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Re: New Member - Help with disassembly of Power Brake Unit
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BH
IF you have disassembled the unit per the factory shop manual (which was the first thing that BigKev uploaded to the site, under "Packard Articles"), the seals could just be stuck after decades of co-mingling in the master cylinder bore.

Soak 'em down with some WD-40 and let sit overnight. I bet that will loosen 'em up just enough. If not, try a good penetrating oil, and wait about 15-20 minutes.

P.S. - Thanx for the nice pic of your '53 - and taking time to add it to the Owner Registry here.

Posted on: 2007/4/6 11:55
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Re: NEW 2007 PACKARD
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Conn -

Don't feel stupid about this. Plenty of people in the hobby were unwittingly taken in by these pictures when they were published in an article that was presented as a factual account back in 2002 and by not just one, but TWO clubs. Worse yet, it wasn't even April Fool's day, and the author had been honored as guest speaker at more than one National meet, with all expenses paid, too.

Shortly after those images were first published, I - a rank amateur and with nothing more than a piece of software that cost less than $99 (US) - created the quick-n-dirty image of the 1956 Patrician Twelve just to show what was possible - phakery, that is.

I'll let John tell you the full story.

Posted on: 2007/4/3 17:41
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