you have to go through an agent to bid, they charge approx $300 if they win or lose, I just don't play that game

engine serial number will tell you also

buying from these auctions is an incredible mess

the hourly rate actually means little. Best track record is "ask the man who's been a customer". I saw a shop that charges $52.00 /hr restore an MGA for $160,000. Integrity in business and reputation is the best factor to select a shop.

Favorite: 1953 Caribbean, then a 56 Caribbean, then a 46-47 Clipper Custom Coupe, then a 1930 734 Speedster Rumabout

Chris, to answer your question, Yes! .... We just don't want to see someone get burned, which happens too much in this hobby nowadays.... cloned cars, buckets of bondo, fake data plates, restamped blocks.. It's rampant..but thankfully not so much in Packard-land as other makes.... "may the buyer beware" is indeed true, but when a potential buyer asks questions on this fine website and the answers (some right- some wrong) hack off someone on this site who chastises others who are honestly just trying to help, it just ruffles my feathers..

How to get Burned:

Example: A "made-up" 1940 Packard 180 Convertible Sedan Darrin: yours for $189,000http://davidsclassiccars.com/packard/39343-1940-packard-darrin.html This,imho,is a $80,000 to $100,000 car max

A real one, worth every penny of it's selling price at $341,000https://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/MO12/Monterey/lots/r146-1940-packard-super-eight-one-eighty-darrin-convertible-sedan-by-howard-dutch-darrin/280733

Regarding your comment of "The comment I referenced was ad hominem not machina." I have no idea what your fancy latin? words mean. I do know that if someone is selling a 160 Convertible coupe or Convertible sedan and expect to get 160 money, you better be able to prove it and just not by conjecture. With all of these known 1940 model year changes you mentioned, it sure is easy to make one up now since the knowledge is there.

My statement that 75% of all 1940-42 senior convertibles are "made up cars" is INDEED PURE conjecture. But pure conjecture I've heard first hand from the experts, who own and restore them. You read my reply as "Your statement that 75% of all 1940 160 convertible sedans are "made up cars" is pure conjecture." You sure did not read what I wrote at all. I used for my percentage point of 75% ALL 1940-42 senior open cars, NOT SPECIFICALLY 1940 160 Convertible sedans. 1941's are cloned at a higher % rate, by conjecture of course. Please re-read what I actually wrote and not how you read it to be.

Regarding your statement "I'm not worried. I have my original data plate, but I wouldn't put that piece of trash on my restored car" Did anyone say you needed to put it on the car? We said it needed to be kept for authenticity purposes. To someone with no original plate: Why would you get rid of an original data plate and discard it??? by the way, your car is simply gorgeous and your long ownership history and dedication to restore it is truly awe-inspiring!

Your point was that this seller got way less money for his convertible sedan due to this forum and the fine folks on it. This forum merely "originally" questioned the fact that it could be a made-up car and apparently the eBay listing "at the time" did not convince the bidders of this also. Folks even KINDLY apologized for their statements that were incorrect. I guess you don't accept apologies? I've sure learned to accept them in life.

On your 1930 734 Speedster reference, I assume "pointy" means runabout or boattail speedster? Well here's two of them for sale now by the same dealer: The legit documented car is priced at over three times the price of the repro bodied car. Thus; a documented verifiable car is substantially more valuable and collectible than a clone, or unproven legit car, as was my point.

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/5895-1930-packard-734-speedster-runabout/

https://hymanltd.com/vehicles/6033-1930-packard-734-speedster/

to be frank and honest, any 1940-42 160 Convertible Coupe or Convertible Sedan with a replaced data plate may need to be evaluated to the maximum degree. Over 75% of these have been built from 120's and even the authoritative experts have "made up cars". Mr. Jim Hollingsworth told me in 1980 when he visited our house that he was building a 160/180 Station Wagon that was never originally built as a 160/180. Many 120 Darrin's and other open 120 series cars were converted to 356 engined cars by the experts. Without original previous paperwork and/or a correct original data plate there is NOTHING wrong with questioning these cars. A non-original data plate (with missing original data plate) or lack of documentation can greatly affect a cars value even if it is 100% legit.

By the way, you may know David Charvet well and he may be the greatest guy on the planet but there is NOTHING wrong with questioning a seller on the correctness of a car. His CAR was questioned in a public debate. that's life! That's what happens when a car is PUBLICLY advertised. And by the way his 1952 Hudson Hornet advertised in this link below has a 1953 Hood ornament and a 1953 Grille on it. Is it fair to state this?? this ad also says "correct labeled oil bath air cleaners".. there are not oil bath units and not correct for a 1952-3 at all.. As Ronald Reagan said we need to "trust but verify"

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1046202/1952-hudson-hornet-for-sale-in-lake-oswego-oregon-97035

please let me know if you would like to sell me this cool display item! thanks!

what year and model does this 1920's Packard appear to be? I know very very little about this era Packard but think they are gorgeous! thanks!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-PHOTO-PACKARD-COUPE-CAR-WOMAN-DRESS-HAT-FUR-COAT-CORSAGE-1929-LICENSE-PLATE/302602745868?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649