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Board index » All Posts (bwilsonaus)




Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Thanks guys

That fills quite a few gaps in my knowledge.

Sounds like export cars were partly assembled then shipped as a KD kit for final assembly at destination. Makes sense.

I was aware that Packard leased the Briggs body plant which had earlier been sold to Chrysler, but not that they built some 1956 Packards (and Clippers) there. Also makes sense.

So my RHD Clipper may have been "built" at Conner, and may have acquired the VN on its 352 engine there. But still could have a build number from the Utica plant, where the engine was actually manufactured.

So Packard did not need to know in advance which engine was going into which car. The VN could have been stamped when an engine actually went into a car.

Yes, it all adds up.

Now to find the Utica number on mine!

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/15 1:01
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
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Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Dave

That's interesting. I thought car production stopped at the Packard plant in Detroit in June, 1956. My Clipper may have been built there - up to whatever stage they built export cars then. Where were the Packards built later in 1956 produced (ie post the merger with Studebaker)? Showing my ignorance!

I had assumed that June 1956 was the end of production for 1956 models.

At 9.5:1 the 352 engines maybe didn't need shims to lower the compression, although I seem to recall that the compression ratio on the V8 Caribbeans was 10:1. High for those days. Do you know if any V8 Caribbeans came to Australia new? They would have been hideously expensive here. Gas in Australia was quite good then, though. We had a thing called "Super" which was generally ok with higher compression/performance engines. Maybe equivalent to 95 octane unleaded now. But 10:1 would have been marginal with that. Probably needed to retard the ignition timing.

So your engines have the VN stamped at top/front of the block. I see why you're interested to know whether the Utica stamping is also at the rear on mine.

Will definitely check. I'm curious now, too!

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/14 19:32
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Hello Dave

That's interesting.

I guess you can tell from the numbers that your engines were produced in late 1956. Even though they are stamped at the back, do they contain the VN or can they somehow be linked to that?

It appears from that factory note that as early as 1955, Packard knew which engines were going into export cars. I wonder if that's correct though, given the other anomalies? There's certainly no evidence of it in my car. In fact, you probably noticed that nobody ever bothered to stamp the trim or paint code on my VN plate. I just happen to know what they were. Guess you've been wrestling with these sorts of questions for a long time!

Do you have the car which goes with your Patrician engine?

Where was your Caribbean manufactured? In South Bend?

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/14 5:52
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: Auction: '50 Super Eight, Stillwater, MN, June 6, 2020
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Tim

Yes, what you say is true. I wonder how many of the inhabitants of today's UK towns are actually capable of doing a day's work in a field?

Discretionary spending has already taken a hit most places. A lot of people I know are consciously conserving cash. Maybe not a bad thing in the longer term.

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/13 21:51
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Hello Dave

Interesting what you say about the painting. That suggests that they knew at Utica in 1956 which car each engine was destined for (including export cars?). Do we know if engine painting was done at Utica (would assume so), or back at the plant?

Was just browsing through some of the earlier correspondence on this site about the numbering of the Utica motors. I gather all the V8s were built there in 1956.

The 16th April, 1956 memo from the factory quoted by BH says:

"2. Export Engines starting with 55th Series have XH stamped on block between V just back of the water pump. Same location that Conners stamp engine numbers.

3. Utica Engine number that was stamped on right rear exhaust port flange is now stamped on the front of the block, same location as Conner uses."

I guess my Clipper was built soon after the date of that note. The note only mentions senior models and does not seem to correspond to the facts as we know them now, specifically in relation to your late 56 Caribbean.

You mentioned that your engine has the Utica engine number stamped next to the rear RH exhaust port. Is it also stamped up behind the water pump?

That memo also suggests that engines destined for export cars (maybe senior models only?) had XH stamped up near the water pump. Can't see anything like that on mine, although there might be the remains of it next to the VN, which I think someone has tried to grind off.

Very curious. Suggests that the written records are unreliable. Maybe there was just widespread confusion at the time.

I will check for a number at the rear of my block when I get a chance to access it safely.

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/13 20:48
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Dave

Sure. Next time it's in the air I'll take another look. The numbers at the front are very hard to read. Almost like someone tried to grind them off.

This business of stamping new numbers on frames or engines is popular with the registration authorities here. They made me stamp new VIN numbers on the frames of two of my motorcycles because the originals were indistinct under the powder coating on the steering head, then they made me remove the originals even though in their opinion they were illegible!

Do you know if these engines were painted before or after the Utica numbers were stamped? The new number on this engine is highly visible but quite messy. Looks like it was done as an afterthought. The others are so indistinct that they may have been ground, then painted over to make them disappear.

I think I spotted the location you described on the rear of the block, but no sign of numbers there. A number there would not be accepted by our registration authorities. The whole block has been repainted red, presumably when the car was restored. There may be a number under the paint there, though. When I get the chance, I'll look again and let you know.

Can you hazard a guess when my car was built? Must also have been quite late in 1956. I believe it was registered here around October that year, so would have left the US at least two months before. Do you know when the last Clippers were manufactured?

I have not seen any other 1956 Packards here. There were apparently three Clippers imported that year. I know that one was scrapped after being cut down to a utility (pickup). No Caribbeans a far as I know. Am wondering whether Packard was told to stamp the engine number somewhere visible? If so, it didn't help.

Cheers

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/13 1:41
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Hi Dave

Well I crawled under the car and drew a blank in the rear location you describe. Then scraped away at the paint around the new engine number at the front. It's there, right behind the new one. Hard to decipher but it starts with an "A" and looks like the vehicle number 5622-6194.

I can see the casting number at the rear top of the block. It's 440275.

Here's a pic of the vehicle plate, which is the only thing visible in a photo.

Cheers

Brian

Attach file:



jpeg  (197.61 KB)
191498_5e93bd531e95b.jpeg 1920X1440 px

Posted on: 2020/4/12 20:16
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: Auction: '50 Super Eight, Stillwater, MN, June 6, 2020
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
MJG

Great to hear from you! There's hope for us yet.

Following my own advice, I recently sold my 1941 120 Club Coupe -yes, probably just in time by Tim Cole's reckoning. Still have my 1956 Clipper Deluxe (with Ultramatic!) which I enjoy driving just as much. It's a fraction of the value of the Club Coupe. But attracts the same attention out on the road - or even when parked.

Truth is it's not much to the taste of your father's generation, who gravitate towards newer cars as you said. And push the value of good ones up.

The silver lining is that the older cars are becoming much more affordable for people like you who want to drive the wheels off them! Love it.

I'm hopeful that this will lead to more of the older cars being preserved.

I have no illusions about the Clipper being an investment (except in my mental health). And my wife gives me a hard time about how much real estate it occupies in the garage. Do I feel guilty? No.

Go for it Chris! You might get a bargain. If not, there are plenty more out there. Would be good to find one needing less work (ie money) to have a nice everyday driver. Restoration work is not getting any cheaper. Although I could live with that one, especially at $1-2k.

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/12 18:26
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: 1956 Clipper Deluxe
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Thanks guys

Yes, I found the pics with Utica engine number locations on this site. Have looked at the locations at the front of the engine.

I assume the Utica number was stamped. It's possible there's another number hiding near the new one at the front near the breather. Will rub the paint back and have a closer look. This is vehicle number 5622 6194 so not very far from the end according to the table (also for Packard sadly).

I did crawl under the car to try to spot a number at the rear of the block, but couldn't catch sight of the location which HH describes. Will get the front up and try again today.

I'm assuming it's there somewhere!

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/12 16:33
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 


Re: Auction: '50 Super Eight, Stillwater, MN, June 6, 2020
Home away from home
Home away from home

Brian Wilson
Another angle is that most older cars are getting much harder to sell, even in "normal" times.

Ask anybody under about 45 years of age what sort of old car they like. Most will answer 1960s-1970s. Oh, and it has to be automatic because most can't drive a manual. They're less concerned about originality. Hence all the "resto-mods" with modern drive trains, which sometimes attract premium prices.

There's more money around now than in the past, but for different sorts of old cars.

What this means is that there are fewer buyers out there for our sort of cars - except for those which can be clearly classified as "investment" grade. This includes some Packard senior models, particularly coach built or open cars. The value of these cars will usually diminish with regular use, though.

This generational shift is normal, and applies equally to things like vintage race cars.

So what does it mean for us?

Unless you're buying an older vehicle as a major investment, buy something you really like at the right price. Use and enjoy it, recognising that it might not appreciate in value and is unlikely to appeal to your kids/grandkids. And of course, don't tell your wife about this!

Brian

Posted on: 2020/4/12 5:05
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
 Top 



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