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Wanted: '55 Patrician LF fender in the PNW
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Looking for a rust-free left front fender for a 1955 Patrician. Located in SE Washington so the closer the better for transportation costs.

Posted on: 2019/11/29 17:28
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
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1955 Patrician Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Looking at the front of the transmission, the bushing aft of the seal between the splines has holes in it. Are those the oil path for clutch via the annular groove drilled holes in the torque converter shaft and are they indicative of whether or not an appropriate pump is installed for the drilled 40 tooth torque converter shaft or does the bell housing have to be removed?

Posted on: 2019/11/29 12:54
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Okay, I think I'm making a bit more sense out of the service bulletin. So the 55 and early 56 pumps and shafts were 20 tooth splines from the factory and the DDC got oil via the tooth gaps, but with the May 56 publication of the bulletin service replacement parts were made for the transmissions up to that point that added 20 more splines in the gaps. The replacement shaft and pump required the holes drilled into the shaft (why the replacement shaft didn't come with them I don't understand). Mine is configured this way. Late 56 didn't need the holes drilled because the oil pump assembly was changed again to inject the oil at the rear of the pump into the shaft end. (Why the service pump body wasn't this way is a mystery.)

I can assume the service parts were installed since the shaft holes were drilled. The original 20 spline pump rotors can't be there and all the 40 spline rotors are the same.

The pump body could be original, in which case there would be no path for the DDC oil. If it is the service body or a late 56 body, it should work unless the drilled holes would be a leak path for the late 56 body.

So the only possible configuration that could be blocking passage in this case is that the service shaft and rotor were installed without the service body, is that correct? That seems implausible that only two of the three service parts were installed from the kit.

Is there anything else that could be blocking the passage?

Posted on: 2019/11/25 19:18
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Note in my picture that the converter shaft has the holes in the annular groove just behind the splines. I assume that means it's a later converter shaft or has been modified per the service counselor bulletin. Does that mean it should work regardless of which front pump is present as the fluid could enter the shaft either way?

Posted on: 2019/11/24 20:34
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Well, it took hours to scroll through the 241 pages. Whew. The only front pump pictures were the in place ones prior to removal and after reinstallation. No discussion regarding the difference between 55 and 56 shaft and pump.

I've attached a picture of the converter shaft. Can someone tell me if it's a 55 vs 56 part?

I take it there's no way to tell what the front pump is without removal of the bell housing and pump.

Attach file:



jpg  P1010401.JPG (488.64 KB)
2367_5ddb46ed354bc.jpg 2048X1536 px

Posted on: 2019/11/24 19:14
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Well, I pulled the torque converter apart since I had it out. The only thing I found is two of the adjacent large rings had the gaps separated by only an inch. I spread them apart but I don't believe that would prevent the clutch from working. The clutch friction plate has a little wear but not that much. The grooves are still visible, just not as deep as a new one. I can understand why he didn't bother replacing it.

His belief was that the failure was due to not replacing the friction plate, but I would expect at most that would cause a bit of slippage but there's nothing. The DD hydraulic pressure comes on at the port but absolutely nothing is felt. There's no engagement.

The ports are clear at the clutch hub, but there's no visible passageway in the converter for the fluid to reach those ports specifically -- just the gap between the hollow shafts, I assume.

The transmission is not out of the car. Not having an ultramatic apart before I'm not at all familiar with what is required to inspect the front pump and shaft part compatibility. (The only AT I've rebuilt before is a Ford AXOD).

Posted on: 2019/11/23 13:48
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Interesting. Thanks for the info. The transmission was rebuilt but I have no idea what specifically was done. If this part mismatch were to have occurred, would the DD hydraulic pressure on the side port of the transmission still kick on at governed speed with normal pressure? That test did pass.

Posted on: 2019/11/23 8:51
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
That I'm aware of, but while I'll be checking the clutch friction plate (I have a new one, btw), that the piston isn't seized and the ring gaps are staggered, one thing I don't know is the hydraulic path to the piston. I'd like to blow it backwards to ensure it's not plugged with something. I assume I'll find a port behind the piston.

Posted on: 2019/11/23 7:53
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Got the converter removed. The center bore on the crank was rusty and they had rusted together. Now to disassemble and see if I can figure out why the direct drive clutch isn't working. I'm assuming I can just invert and remove the clutch side cover without tearing everything down through the turbines, then disassemble the clutch from the cover.

Posted on: 2019/11/22 19:48
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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Re: Torque Converter Removal
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Joined:
2010/3/3 12:50
From Pasco, WA, USA
Posts: 79
Converter is hanging on to the back of the engine. The mechanic says he's used prybars but was afraid to pry any harder for fear of damaging the flywheel.

Posted on: 2019/11/20 21:28
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1942 Clipper Club Sedan
1948 Custom Touring Sedan (22nd Series)
1955 Patrician Sedan
1955 400 Sedan
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