Hi
After reading the pertinent posting to my questions, here I offer my opinion.

Historical Framework: the Single Six developed into the standard mass-market volume prestige car for the 1920's, brought Packard's prestige to a market segment previously priced out of luxury cars. Single Six and successor Standard Eight accounted for approximately 85% of the yearly production.

The Single Six and Standard Eight enlarged Packard's prestige reputation by directly exposing more of the population to the quality and qualities Packard possessed.

The Depression changed everything, forced Packard to offer cars in the middle price segment to survive.

Tooling cost for all-steel bodies only could be amortized by volume, difficult for small manufacturers.

Selling in volume traded on Packard's prestige name.

Ultimately, the 120 and Six sales volume saved the company financially, allowed it to weather the Depression.

GM production people make the 120 a successful reality, only understood volume production, pushed the 115 six to further their only understanding of how to make Packard a continuing success.

The old-line management, wary from the troubled Depression economy, are comforted by profits of medium priced sales, lose sight of Packard's long-term strength in luxury cars.

Management failed to recognize how the luxury market will eventually revive: not on the same basis as the 1920's, not with the luxury cars then in production.

Depression economics caused major deflation and price realignment for all segments. GM was astute enough to recognize this situation. The mass market volume luxury car segment, which had been priced $2,100 to $3,000 in the 1920's, by 1936 spread from $1,500 to $2,100.

Beginnings of the redefined mass-market volume luxury car: the '36 Cadillac Series 60. An inauspicious beginning, essentially a Buick Century fitted with a Cadillac V8 and trim.

Price is the important point: $1,695, the middle of the nearly $1,300 price gap between the 120 sedan at $1,115 and Eight at $2,385. Sales of 6712 units seem insignificant, but each succeeding year sales mostly move in the right direction.

For '37, influenced by the GM production people, Packard management introduces the 115 six in a further effort to generate sales volume. Concurrently, the specifications of the former Eight become the new Super Eight, dismissing the big straight eight to history.

The boost for the Cadillac Series 60 comes in '38 with the introduction of the 60 Special. More importantly, other than the 120CD and '38 Eight Deluxe price nearer the Series 60, Packard offers no models truly competitive until the '39 Super 8.

When the '39 Super 8 arrives, Packard has clearly based it on the '38 Eight, with larger engine and finer trim. This parallels Cadillac's approach three years prior in creating the Series 60. At the end of that fateful year, the new Super 8 garners 3962 sales versus 11,426 Cadillac 61 and 60 Specials, the first point of loss.

This is the critical point where the senior series seriously needed retooling to remain a contender to dominate this market. But rather than design a new car, with the high style becoming expected, Packard presented just an up-market version of the 120/Eight, now so ubiquitous.

For three model years, Cadillac built a base of customers with the Series 60, next enlarged the series with the stylish 60 Special. That single model sets the style for the next stage of Cadillac's conquest of the volume luxury market, the Series 62 with the GM Torpedo C Body.

Final steps to make the conquest complete for 1941: end the LaSalle nameplate now clearly siphoning sales from Cadillac, reinstitute the Series 61 as the entry level Cadillac, then reduce the base prices of the Series 62 by 12%, just watch the sales explode.

Packard's management, enthralled with the price range crowded with many other good medium priced offering, ignored until it was too late a lucrative market just waiting to be filled.

I look forward to your comments and perspectives now you've read mine.

Steve

Hi

I have theories about when and how the luxury market dominance was lost, but before I put my opinion out here, I'd like to read what knowledge folks think.

Steve

Hi

Thanks for the all the detailed information you have provided. It strikes me that a thoroughly detailed analysis of how the 734 models were built i.e. what was shared with either the 733 or 745, what engineering changes were made, etc. would be a worthwhile project. A good article on this subject would be of interest to readers of both the CCCA "The Classic Car" and PAC "The Cormorant" as well as a reference for the future.

My interest in the 734 is mostly aesthetic, though with the knowledge it was created as a high-profile sporting image car for Packard. It seemed such a natural chassis for wealthy clients to send to custom coachbuilders for individual creations.

That it was inspired by other sporting makes of the era just adds to it's appeal.

Steve

Hi West

Thanks for the further clarification on how the 734 body differs from the other models. Since the body width is narrower, the hood must be unique to the model to have the proper taper even if it were the same length as that on the others.

With the cowl six inches rear-ward and another six inches of cowl length, that puts the driver's position a full foot further rearward? There must be changes to the steering and controls to accommodate?

The rear mounted spares really contribute to the cleanliness of the design in general, though understandable the Speedster has the sidemounts. No boat-tail design ever looks good with a rear mounted spare. I have never heard the rumors of their intentions to enter the 734 in LeMans and/or Mille Miglia. Whether they won or not, still would have been great lore. Did wonders for the DuPont!

As for showing the finished paintings, yes, but both are still in process now. The oil is about half done, shows the Continental touring coupe in an appropriate setting, Southern France on a glorious, clear, sunny day.

The watercolor, after a failed first try with a different background, I'm now starting a second try. The convertible sedan is parked in the driveway of a Prairie School style home, based on a design by John S. Van Bergen for the Alfred Bersbach house in Wilmette, Ill.

As much as I like designing and painting the cars, I always try to show it in an appropriate setting. Most times the background execution consumes more time than painting the car.

I will gladly send you paper copies of the pencil line drawing layouts for now if you'd like to have an idea what they are, since it be some time before the art ready to show.

This will be the venue that will have them to post, as well as the East Grand Packard website. If you look in this websites' photo file, you'll find my '57 Packard watercolor renderings of the Detroit designs. I didn't add a background to those yet.

Steve

Hi West

Thanks for the information on how the components are proportioned. With the cowl six inches rearward, does that still allow the hood to be shared with the 740/745C models?
Or is it unique to the 734? I understand the hood length is greatest on the 745 models therefore unique to that model.

On my art, I developed the proportional drawings from the rear three quarter factory photo of the Speedster, enlarged to approximately 15 inches. I sketched top up line of the Speedster to control the overall profile height.

I too love the a nice long hood, so designed a full length hood running all the way to the windshield. On the body width, I like the dropped lower sill line, so the body is shown as wide enough to accommodate that feature.

Both designs have dual rear mounted spares since sidemounts visually break the sweep of the hood design. Both designs also have step plates rather than running boards. Every feature is designed to emphasis the sporting nature intended in the 734.

It's one fun design exercise to work out what might have been!

Steve

Hi

I've been informally tracking the '57 & '58 Packards for about twenty years, and yes, agree they seem to have a high survival rate for such a low production car. The survival rate for all V-8 Packards, be they Detroit or South Bend cars, seems quite high. I'm glad of it, too.

Conjecturing on why so many survive, I think they were set aside by folks because they were "last Packards", some in hopes of monetary gain if held long enough, some for sentimental reasons, not wanting to give up the last example they might ever own of a make they came to like. Folks hate to let go of the last of any good product they might own.

I recall seeing '55-'56 Packards advertised for sale in the 'Swap n' Sell' in the back of Motor Trend in the '60 when they were barely ten years old.

I understand the reservation some Packard folks have had toward the South Bend cars, though I think it's just trying to ignore the realities toward no real good end. We can't change history, no matter how much we'd like to. I like to think of myself of a Packard person with a realistic view of total Packard history, however disappointing the end of it might be.

Of the Studebaker folks, they seem to embrace the South Bend Packards more readily, in general, holding a realistic view of their cars and the company, even with all it's disappointments. This is one of the things I like about the Studebaker folks, in contrast to the "we're number one and our cars are perfect" attitude held by so many Big Three enthusiast I meet.

Steve

Hi West

Thanks for your response, if the only external indication is the "locked" lock ring on the wheels, it would be difficult indeed to positively identify a custom-bodied 734 in a period photograph.

Looking at my photos of your Dad's 734 Speedster taken at Hershey this year, I can't see the lock or bolts well enough to be sure they are different from those on other Packards photographed at the same time.

Another question regarding the 734: in addition to sharing the large engine in modified form, is that engine placed in the chassis as they were on the 740 or rear-ward 5 inches as was the 745? Did they share the hood with the 740 and 745C?

What is the spark of all my 734 interest? I do automotive art, specifically my custom own designs for favorite Classic chassis, trying to design in the context of their times. I've developed a close-coupled convertible sedan and a touring coupe such as was popular in Continental Europe, think of Galle, Binder, Million-Guiet, De Viscaya, and many others. These designs are then rendered in transparent watercolor and oil. It's purely an art exercise but pleases me no end when they come out right.

It occurred to me to ask if anyone has been able to identify any of those few 734's that received custom coachwork in the period.

Steve

Hi

Rereading the section in PACKARD A HISTORY OF THE MOTORCAR AND THE COMPANY page 305, last paragraph:

"....and the same triangular radiator cap as the 745 models. The chassis could also be purchased for mounting of special coachwork. The Packard illustrated a body by Kirschhoff so obliterating the Packard features that only the wire wheel hubs remained identifiable. Another, by Thompson, was given a rounded radiator shell (as was the Kirschoff), cycle fenders and low pointed body."

This accounts for two of the chassis, anyone have photos of these cars to post?

Now, I still have to find the other published reference to 11-13 custom-bodied 734. I'm still looking.....stay tuned.

Steve

Hi

Thanks for your insights, I have yet to find the reference but I am sure that I read it in one of those publications. Just have to keep looking.

I noted it as it was the first time I found any indication the chassis was available to coachbuilders.

Where the factory supplied bodies built in-house but as a semi-custom operation?

Steve

Hi

I recall reading a article on the 734 models in either The Packard Cormorant or The Classic Car (anyone recall which publication and what issue?)

Of the details, the production numbers for each body style were listed including 11 or 13 chassis that went to coachbuilders.

I've never seen any period photographs of the resulting cars, but really want to know what they were.

If someone can direct me to a source with photographs of even one I would be very grateful.

If all the custom bodies are know, listed and pictured that would be great.

Thanks for reading this and whatever help you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Steve