Amen Paul! Others can call it beating a dead horse if they like, it's their prerogative, but much insight is to be gained by analyzing what went both right and wrong then, insights that can now be applied to the current boneheads still running the American industry into the ground (see Lincoln currently circling the drain).

Oddly enough, the more I engage in this analysis, the more I come to appreciate and respect what Packard did by dropping the rose-colored glasses of old and see their actions within the context of the period. As such, I've developed a deeper interest in and respect for all their cars, something not always the case at one time.

Steve

Remember: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. " - George Santayana

Hi

Just comparing the general specs, Here's my theory about how they developed that '48-'54 generation of straight eights: adding two more cylinders to the 245 cid six cylinder yields 327 cid, bore and stroke adjustments would take care of the 288 & 359 cid. If the bore centers and deck heights are the same, does this seem valid? Or are there significant basic differences?

The reasoning behind would be the production tooling was already paid for, so Christopher instructed engineering to develop a common block with a range suitable for Eights, Super Eights and eventually whatever replaced the Custom Eight 356 ci.

If this was so, it amounted to a considerable cost savings which would have appealed to pinchpenny George, pleased manufacturing, parts and service departments as well. Buyers were never aware that this rationalization took place, received an engine with all the desirable attributes they were accustomed to.

Comments anyone?

Steve

Hi Bryan

I'll defer to the technically knowledgeable as to what swaps where with moderate ease. Although I do have to comment that if a pre-war Senior has a sick engine needing costly repair and the car isn't a show car, replacing the engine with a '48-'54 327 would be preferable to some modern replacement. At least it would still drive and have the sound and feel of the original.......also it would be less embarrassing to open the hood at a show!

Now, here's my theory about how they developed that '48-'54 generation of straight eights: adding two more cylinders to the 245 cid six cylinder yields 327 cid. The production tooling was already paid off, so Christopher instructed engineering to develop a common block with a range suitable for Eights, Super Eights and eventually whatever replaced the Custom Eight 356 ci. If this was so, it amounted to a considerable cost savings which would have appealed to pinchpenny George, pleased parts and service departments as well. Buyers were never aware that this rationalization took place, received an engine with all the desirable attributes they were accustomed to.

Comments anyone?

Steve

Hi

Although it might seem a missed opportunity for Packard to have built OHC straight eights pre-war as benefit of the aircraft engine work, as has been noted, their buyers sought smooth, quiet, torquey, effortless performance rather than higher performance as the cost of those attributes.

Also recall the gas generally available was in the 65 octane range.....OHC or ohv wasn't going to produce as much benefit for it's cost, complication and noisier operation.

That began to change as WWII progressed with the higher octane fuels being developed, first for aircraft application but then to be brought to market as 'super' or 'premium' which ohv engines with freer-breathing could benefit.

The shame is that their postwar passenger car engine development didn't take full advantage of the knowledge base they had. The minute the ohv Olds and Cadillac V8's caught the popular imagination, no L-Head no matter how refined had much of a future.

Steve

Hi

I'm slipping! Forgot the '29-'30 Stutz M Weymann Monte Carlo sport sedan contemporary with the Jordan Z.

Steve

Hi Paul and Everyone

Have a great time, wish I could be there.

Please post lots of good pictures, especially of the custom-bodied cars that show, make me crazy to see what I missed.

Steve

Hi

The reason continental kits don't aesthetically work on the '55-'56 models is the tailight-bumper ends are an integrated design, much like the'56 Lincoln is. Separating the elements destroys the visual unity.

Steve

Hi Tim

Thanks for posting that wonderful profile of the Jordan, that's the first time I've seen it. I too suspect Dietrich might be the creator of the Jordan Sportsman sedan design, seem to recall Jordan was one of the companiies he had a consultancy with. It has the same hood style of his Franklin work, also some of the details and feel of his prior full-custom Franklin Le Pirate. The other possibility was Alexis de Sahknoffsky, under contract with Hayes Body, who gave quite a few small makers a good element of style in their last years.

As far as the A-pillar-to-roof header, Dietrich handled that about as well as it could be short of keeping a separate cast convertible-style windshield frame as he would with the V-windshield design to come next. Notice the window shapes are nearly a mirror image of one another. A bit more rake angle on each would be even better but for full-door construction, looks magnificent as it is. For the '33-'34 sport sedan, most of the high arch of the upper door frames is flattened off, an improvement.

The fully-integrated coupe-style trunk is the leap forward that was being demonstrated here, which required the passenger compartment be completely moved forward off the rear axle line. The Chrsyler Airflow gets credit for this as a production first but it was worked out conceptually first by Dietrich and other custom coachbuilders.

Why, Oh why didn't Packard hire Dietrich the minute he was pushed out of his association with Murray/Dietrich? Better yet, built whatever he designed without question as production offerings.

Steve

Hi Tim

The only car that would predate Dietrich's design would be the 1930 Jordan Speedway Model Z Sportsman Sedan. It's 3-box configuration with the integrated trunk. Who the creator of that breakthrough design is forever a mystery.

Steve

Hi

It is a great issue! Lots of fine Packard coverage.

It's wonderful to know that '31 845 Newport Sport Sedan by Dietrich is the very one in this topic of a while ago:

https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&type=&topic_id=11259&forum=1

As noted, the '38 60 Special was the evolutionary development of the 3-box sedan concept which had been kicking around among various custom coachbuilders for most of the decade.

What seems so unfortunate is that while Packard was among the early pioneers of the configuration, that they didn't pursue it as a progressive design for their sedans by 1935-1938, both as a 120 and for a new series of downsized Super Eights and Twelves for 1936-37.

As in so many instances, it's the car that brings the seemingly new configuration to the mass market that's best remember for doing so. Cadillac was the beneficiary of extremely felicitious events that brought young Bill Mitchell to GM Art & Colour and Harley Earl powerful enough to champion it just in time to take advantage of the competent new 60 Series chassis.......at a market price sweet spot $2,100 where there was no affective competition.

GM did it again a decade later with the 1949 two door hardtop Coupe de Villes, Rivieras and Holidays, regardless of Chrysler pioneering seven Town and Country hardtops a few year prior.

Steve