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Board index » All Posts (fishnjim)




Re: Leaded Fuel Additives
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Fish'n Jim
I guess we need to talk periods; post war flathead and post war OHV.
High octane fuel is not necessary in a flathead simply because the compression is so low. Your '50, if stock, is flat(L-head). Octane boost was needed when they went OHV, which allowed to up the compression, which can lead to "knock"ing(preignition) with some low grade fuels. That compression change occurred somewhere around the early to mid '50s depending on manufacturer. Packard kind of hung on to flats a bit long. Of course, a quality motor with a following for it's day, but the post war market changed fast and lack of response lead to the need to merge to survive. Two factors there, the insistent control freak Packard guy and whom they merged with and the rest is history(literally). (just the facts)

The other factor, ex ambient lead pollution, negating lead was switch to "hardened" valve seats. They're a slightly different metallurgy and any engine shop would use modern materials. If you change the valve material, I'd have the seats changed accordingly. Which has to be done if they can't cut and lap them due to XS wear, etc.
As far as the ethanol record, it's an artifact of EPA anti-smog oxygenate fuels(RFG) policy. Bill Clinton made that call to "favor" ADM(who lobbied - not small farmers) over petroleum producers and used the MTBE spill/aquifer contamination in CA as "justification". Then EPA subsequently made everyone change their USTs to double wall, so go figure that one? Cart-horse. Double wall negates the need to switch oxygenate additives, but no crony subsidy $$ that way. Once they start something in the GOVT, it's like nearly impossible to stop it*. Been reauthorized ever since. That's one give away example of why we're so far in debt and deficits keep on coming uncontested. One day we'll wake up, but it'll be when our paper holders call us in, we can't pay, and no more USA.
* - eg; we still have three fully funded national clocks running.

Posted on: 2020/3/15 19:51
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Re: What to do to drop an oil pan
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Fish'n Jim
What happens if you go through all that, take it off, and pan's clean?

How much gunk depends on a few things.
Does your car have a partial or no oil filter?
If there's no filter and high mileage, sitting with contaminated oil, than it's probably even worse than you think.
I wouldn't worry about it right now, if it has a filter and you just want to get running. Flush it out with fresh (ND) oil/change filter.
Depending on what you are going to do with it, if you're just trying to start, etc. you might consider alternates.
You can drain the pan and inspect first through drain hole with a fiber optic inspection camera and down thru the oil fill pipe. These are fairly inexpensive now at the Chinese tool take outs.
If it had no filter, high mileage, and you see lumps when you drain the oil, then it's probably sludged. Some of the early oil had a load of paraffins and they crap out everywhere, unfortunately, not just in the pan.
I took a lot of grief from this forum, but I filled my pan up with kerosene and let it sit overnight. I kept draining and flushing till it was clear, no solids. You want to do this cold and static and before you turn the motor by hand. Then fill back up with 2-3 qts of oil and drain once more to get the kerosene residual out. All the big stuff should be gone. You can reinspect at this point too. The galleys may still need attention, but you won't clean those with the pan off either. If one or more is plugged, you'll hear a tapping rather quickly after it starts, and shut it down.
I wouldn't run detergent oil for the first time or two. Depends on how much stuff you get in the oil after cleaning and whether or not it runs. I'd change oil after a few hours running til it's looking good and clean. Then you can use a modern oil, if you want. I'll probably get grief again for even mentioning this, but I have my proof and reasoning.
Simply burn the contaminated kerosene or dispose per local rules.

Posted on: 2020/2/29 20:55
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Re: Did Roger Ailes's father work at the Packard plant in Warren, OH/
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Fish'n Jim
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the auto manufacturing went out of Warren in 1903 to Detroit. I don't think Ailes father would be of the right vintage for that. Based on, R. Ailes was in his 80s when he passed. Est. Born '30s, w/ father in 30s, put him born in >'00. Talk about child labor?
Packard Electric was sold to/taken over by GM in '32, so more likely there.
Another place to call is the Packard Museum in Warren but not sure if they keep this level detail. Employee records are usually confidential, so not too available.
The Warren Tribune is the local paper, but it's a shell of former self/taken over, so not sure they would have early copy to search. A library search may turn up copy, but a lack of evidence is not exclusionary. Depends if his old man was "notorious" or not to get in the news.

Posted on: 2020/2/27 9:09
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Re: Autolite vs Delco ignition coil
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Fish'n Jim
https://www.vintagemoparts.com/product/1938-1951-autolite-service-parts-catalog-pdf/ (Not publicly available.)

Cross ref guide on this site, shows two different Echlin replacement numbers one for Auto and one Delco, so a slight variation. Contact a NAPA store for details or look up part numbers online for picture/specs.

11157356 was superceded.
These were used on a number of different period cars. Have to delve into the specs to be sure.

Attach file:


pdf Size: 172.78 KB; Hits: 65
pdf Size: 99.03 KB; Hits: 86

Posted on: 2020/2/14 10:09
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Re: 49 Standard 8 Uphostery
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Fish'n Jim
If you want it's original fabric, then find the trim code on the body tag, and look up in the literature here.
May still need s swatch to match for fabric supplier. Usually can find by taking seat out and looking underneath for a flap to sample. May also have to clean the cloth to get true appearance.
Otherwise, whatever looks good/matches. I don't think there's a value issue, since the fabric is already shot so new will add value assuming your doing the whole.

Posted on: 2020/1/31 10:43
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Re: Average cost of a paint job
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Fish'n Jim
https://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/automotive-refinish-formula-profitability/

Here's a ball park account of the percent costs for body shop. Paint is less than 10% of cost and that includes mark-up. So not saving much buying "cheaper" paint, but may save time, etc. EPA/OSHA has stepped in on VOCs, etc. and some OEM things are verboten.

Changing color "properly" is more work than just re-painting same.
I wouldn't look to change the color, unless the paint/etc. is shot anyway and need of restore. I'd look for another car with a color I could live with. They're always cheaper completely done. The other factor is once you get under the paint, you never know what you'll find, collision damage, could be a bondo queen or burgeoning rust bucket requiring lots of metal work. Not to mention pre-war and the "orange crate" work.

I can still do my own paint/body work, but unfortunately can not bank the cost savings. Most people will ask for receipts, proof, etc. if you say it has a $30+K paint job.
You can get a good paint job at some of the chain places, but check their work/guarantee before you commit. The one down the road may be better. Ie; are they liable for runs, orange peel, overspray, adhesion, etc. I wouldn't worry about saving a "few bucks" on paint, as the paint is the eye appeal and makes it stand out. They're not books, people judge them by their covers.

Posted on: 2020/1/27 10:51
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Re: 1950 Won't Start.....95% Original
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Fish'n Jim
Certainly agree so far, but no one mentions obvious; spark, fuel system, or wiring? And checked if the clutch is stuck, might be rotating more than you bargained for with the starter. So either half the story or many more things to go thru? Just hang in there, many drop out at this point from pocket book fatigue.

Most of these abandons were never prepped for long term storage and were abandoned for a reason; like it didn't run, too costly to repair back then,(let alone now), so should expect issues, not the Cracker Jack prize.

Just an oldcar-mudgeon's opinion:
I don't understand what the prize is in rushing to start these setting cars? Must be some type of adrenaline rush challenge or testosterone/right of passage thing? Gearhead anxiety disorder? Car TV - MeToo movement? New car boredom?
I used to hate it when the car wouldn't run and I had to fix it back in the day, if I wanted to go someplace. They do everything reliable, include drive themselves now.
I see this frequently, someone finds one then jumps on the brand site when it won't run right away, wanting to know why? That's a clue, didn't do the pre-start inspection work.
I think the evolution to hot-rodding was the more rational approach, pick them boneyards for parts and upgrade, add some power and pizazz.

But if it comes to run, they were a fine motor, just not in my preferred power range, HP/weight ratio. Time moves on.

Posted on: 2020/1/14 11:41
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Re: Gummed up carb never rebuilt a carb
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Fish'n Jim
FYI: don't sand blast the carb!

Another guy on another site was complaining when his rebuild 4 bbl didn't work so good after he sand blasted it first and rebuilt.
Use the soaking type carb cleaner. If any part needs de-scaled later, then carefully bead the part, not the body. Too many orifices to clog. Poke out the any holes with a fine wire.

Posted on: 2020/1/11 10:00
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Don't see this much anymore
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Fish'n Jim
I was going to the post office yesterday, PM, and passed a wrecker getting ready to haul a Packard sedan off the side of the road about a mile from my house. Not sure what year/model as I was watching road having to pass at 40+ mph. {I just wish I'd been driving the '58 Cad, not the '19 - for added human interest and stood on those deep-throated Delco horns!}
All I saw was a hump back, black, and the telltale P grille in the rear view. It was gone by the time I returned.
My guess it was "Packard Ron", who lives down the road in town (city slicker v country bumpkin) out "rotating the tires". But couldn't make out the driver. He was down inside bent over.

Posted on: 2020/1/11 9:55
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Re: How bad do my pistons look?
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Fish'n Jim
I haven't been watching this one, so I apologize being late to the party.

I think you're just wasting time messing with this engine in this condition.
If you find the noise, it's 50:50 maybe something in the lower end and needs to come apart anyway.
Yeah, it might run for a while, but I think you're headed to catastrophic failure down/on the road. Those pistons are well pitted and have lost dimension. Candidates for blowing a hole through and then you'll have debris and eventually game over, if not already.

I mean to educate, not be harsh, blaming, or pointing fingers, it's pretty common across the hobby. The TV shows are partly to blame these days. Cars sit around for years in or outside and someone passionate comes along and rescues "that barn find" and the first thing they want to do is get it running as fast as they can. (I spent over a month getting the '49 prepped to fire.) Then wonder why it's so messed up. They sat for a reason. If PO would have properly stored, drained this motor and kept lubricated, it'd still be good. Over time the coolant degrades, forming acid and corroding metal. The corrosion products have more volume than the liquid and create pressure. Then bad coolant seeps into the pistons and they corrode, plus some are exposed to the atmosphere while sitting. (I found an acorn shell in one of the '49 cylinders) I wouldn't be surprised #2 was in the open crank position during it's long snooze.
I suggest to (everyone so inspired) take time and carefully work through each system, til they're working correctly before starting. Bore scopes are cheap these days. Had coolant system been cleaned "first", then would not have overheated. I rest my case.
Not much sense, plus it's dangerous, gettin 'er running, and the brakes fail/don't work, etc, wire short causes a fire, fuel system full of trash, or some other unforeseen. Check, recheck, and check again is the standard for eliminating errors.
Your going to have to set up some sort of heated recirculation to clean that block properly with oxalic, otherwise, you're just loosening the gunk to end up in the radiator and low spots. Follow with a flush and anti-corrosion inhibitor for the clean surface.
All these things will be taken care of in a good/proper rebuild. It's a heavy motor to pull, and not easy to handle outside the car. It's also getting more difficult to find someone who knows them, like Ross, to do the work. But there are good engine builders everywhere, but more not so good. I recommend you have it run in test stand or dyno after, til they make it right. Then you can enjoy your ride for decades like the PO.

Posted on: 2019/12/21 10:39
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