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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Turns out I was wrong on which valve....it's the exhaust valve on #3 if I'm looking at it correctly. I pulled the valve cover and that one is for sure sticking. The intake valve must have been open when I did the leak-down. I was happy to see the inside of the valve area was clean and lubricated.

I can turn the valve with effort (using vice grips). It is definitely sticky, sometimes gets stuck up. The other valves that I briefly checked spin freely.

Sprayed some penetrating fluid up there and will let it sit overnight to see if it loosens it up a bit more.

Video shows the lifter smacking the end of the valve. The spring can't get it all the way down before the lifter hits it again.

https://youtu.be/UoyIXI4mpFk

Attach file:



jpg  Sticking valve.jpg (854.92 KB)
1059_5f6436a954a13.jpg 1300X731 px

Posted on: Yesterday 21:27:07
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Re: 1950 Standard Eight - NE Ohio - $3,000
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
It's great to see someone asking a reasonable price for a good project start. I see so many that are listed for an absurd amount and they need a lot of work. I'm finding out first hand what that's like.

Looks like a great car that will clean up very nicely. If I was closer and wasn't so invested in my own project I'd definitely be interested. Good luck with the sale!

Posted on: Yesterday 16:52:37
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Thanks Ross. The more I dig into the issue, the more things are making sense. I'm new to all this, and hearing the loud tapping and loss of two cylinders made me worried about a more dire situation.

So there's no harm is letting the lifter hit the stuck valve until it becomes unstuck? That's my only hangup right now.

And a quart of oil to a full tank of gas? Does that foul the plugs at all? I expect it'll smoke a bit.

-Kevin

Posted on: Yesterday 7:57:45
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Compression test:

1 - 150
2 - 135
3 - 0
4 - 135
5 - 135
6 - 132
7 - 135
8 - 145

Going to run a leak-down test on #3 after the battery charges. Went back to test #3 again and it sounds like I spent the battery. I left it hooked up the past couple of days on accident and I think I drained some of the power.

****EDIT - Leak down test shows intake valve as the problem. I couldn't tell where the cylinder was because with no compression in the cylinder I couldn't tell where the compression stroke was. So it's possible that it could be something else, but from what I tested all the air was coming out the carb.


-Kevin

Posted on: 9/16 19:17:58
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
The saga is not over on this car. Shortly after our crushing defeat, I located a complete '39 Super 8 engine in New Mexico. It was part of a package that came with a restored '39 Super 8 that the guy had bought. It came disassembled and packaged in crates. It had been this way from the early 60's. The original owner had used a donor car in his effort to restore the other, and the donor engine was never used.

Long story short my dad made the long drive down and back and brought back the engine. He also brought back any other parts the guy had left including a complete S8 rear axle, drums for all corners, etc.

The upper block is in much better shape than the last one we had. It's currently getting machined and ready for rebuild.

We're not dead yet!

-Kevin

Posted on: 9/16 14:07:21
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Re: 1938 Packard engine parts enquiry
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Like Jim said, I've been "helping" my dad with his 1938 Super 8, and it's been a struggle. We found out first hand that most of the components on the engine for this car are one year only. The '37 and '39 Super 8's don't share much with the '38.

Talking to different vendors and restoration specialists, the general consensus is that the upper block is prone to cracking on the '38's. Something about the metallurgy for that year. The '39's have more water passages to minimize the problem.

We're trying to graft a '39 upper block unto a '38 lower and there are all sorts of issues with the pulleys in the front. Water pump is also different. Finding a '39 water pump is like the Holy Grail. Heads are different between the years also. I believe the fuel pump and such are also different between years. When ordering gaskets you will need to be sure of what engine you have because of the subtle differences...it's possible the wrong gasket can block water passages and then you've got a real problem (happened on our first block).

I'm no expert on these cars, just sharing our experience with the Super 8.

-Kevin

Posted on: 9/16 14:02:57
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
I plan on doing another compression test tonight when I get home to see what 3 and 4 show. My assumption is that they will show zero or very low. If so I'll see if I can figure out a leak-down test and see where it's going. I guess it's possible that I have a blown head gasket, but I don't think that would explain the loud tapping.

I pulled the cap and rotor when my friend and I were diagnosing on Monday. Didn't see any cracks in the cap, but it's not a new one. I don't know that it's an electrical issue because I confirmed that the plugs on 3 and 4 are indeed working.

Depending on what the new compression test shows me, I plan on getting the car back on my neighbor's lift and pulling the valve covers. He suggested running some Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase (drain a quart, add a quart of MMO) and run it up to operating temp and let it cool back down. Warm it up again a few times and see what happens. In his experience he's been able to loosen up stuck valves this way. Not sure how comfortable I am letting it warm up to operating temp with the loud tapping I'm hearing, plus I don't know that I trust my dash gauge.

-Kevin

Posted on: 9/16 11:22:35
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Joe - I meant that I confirmed the spark plugs are receiving spark and that the spark plugs work (took them out and grounded them against the head while I turned the engine over). However, when the spark plugs are installed back in, pulling the wire off #3 and 4 causes no change to the running of the engine, whereas pulling the wire on the other cylinders causes a definite stumble. I should note the engine was stumbling during our testing yesterday....definitely feels like it's missing.

So I think that means that there is no detonation going on in those cylinders. That's what I meant by not firing.
Intake valves stuck closed? Exhaust valves stuck open?

Fuel and spark shouldn't be the issue, so that leaves air.

-Kevin

Posted on: 9/15 8:49:19
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Bad news. Had my friend come over with his timing light and some other instruments to see what we could find. Timing is good, idle speed is good, all spark plug wires are right, points and rotor are clean. All plugs are getting spark.

But 3 and 4 are not firing, despite the spark plugs working, and there is a loud tapping in that area around the valves. Spark, fuel and air are all there so the only thing I can think of is a problem with the valves on 3 and 4. Thoughts?

So frustrating, especially since my compression numbers were so good last week. I was really hoping not to have to tear into the engine anytime soon, but I guess I don't really have a choice now. My goal of at least driving it on the road this year is quickly disappearing.

Ugh.

Posted on: 9/14 19:40:07
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 228
Well this has been a frustrating day.

I made separate ground wires for both the parking lights in the front. Soldered to the light socket and grounded to the ground on the left and right junction boxes. Passenger blinker works normally, driver does not come on in the front. Instead the dash indicator comes on for that side only. The 229D does not work on the driver's side at all. Just a high rate pulsing on the driver rear light, nothing on the front. I'm not sure what else to look at.

I ran wires for the rear lights and hooked them up just like the wiring diagram shows. They must have been installed after the car was delivered because they had run the power wire under the car, when it should have been with the main wire loom (or at least I assume). The ground wire was disconnected in the engine bay so I have no idea where they had hooked it up. It is supposed to go to the back of the instrument panel and attach to one of the circuit breakers. So I made up wires that were routed correctly and attach in the correct places, but the reverse lights do not come on.

I also drilled a hole in the flange of the fuel tank to get a better ground because my fuel gauge is not working. I grounded to the fuel tank door screws. The gauge still does not work. The fuel sender is brand new.

Then I tried to start the car to get the engine running and give it some exercise. It had trouble starting, and when it did it is very rough and I hear a definite knocking. It ran great last week. I have no idea what could have changed in that time. It's always had a bit of a tap when first starting that goes away as soon as the engine warms up a bit. But this sound is different.

So now I'm 0/4 for my projects today and I'm afraid that somehow the engine is damaged. Just one of those days where I question my choice of project.

-Kevin

Posted on: 9/14 17:27:13
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