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Re: Hemmings Article
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2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
The first accusations made in court often seem towering in truth until the cross-examinations begin. When these kinds of histories are done, they tend to paint Jim Nance as if he had the power (or lack thereof) to make all things possible–or not. And if it's "or not" then whatever happened was Mr. Nance's fault. Or so it is made to appear. Everything is 20/20 hindsight and sheep-dipping of Jim Nance. This is (or ought to be) sad.

What somebody doesn't seem to know here is that Packard (perhaps you can say Mr. Nance) actually DID remove the Packard name from Clippers. This was done WELL before the Executive made its debut. But guess what happened? There was an uproar of protests from dealers and customers. So? The Packard name was added back on! They even issued a service bulletin to dealers. Yes. Dealers had a hand in this too. THEY wanted the Packard name to stay! So the history here was not cut and dried as it may seem without these facts.

Of course, the magic logic that arises in these histories always assumes that if one does A, therefore B will result. But in the real world–especially in automotive marketing, it just doesn't always work that way. Especially in the USA... and especially in the 1930s through the 1950s. And beyond.

Nobody seems to remember that when the Dino BY Ferrari (not the FIAT Dino–which opens up a whole new aspect to consider–or argue about) first appeared, there were NO Ferrari names on it. It was just Dino BY Ferrari, not a "Ferrari." So how did they get the "Ferrari" names on the Dino in the USA? Same thing.

And why is it that today even historians and the almighty auction companies insist on calling ALL 1958-60 Continentals as "Lincoln Continentals" or "Lincolns" when they certainly weren't? Heck there were even different grilles, different roofs, different wheel covers, different hood ornaments, different badging, rear ends, tail lights, even the gauge clusters were anodized different colors to distinguish "Lincolns" but nahhhh! Let's ignore all that!

And... why did FoMoCo itself take those three years to blur one into the other by 1960?

FInally when these Op-Eds appear bemoaning the snob image of Packard supposedly dilluted by junior cars, why do none of these ever notice that Mercedes makes and sells all kinds of roller skate econo-boxes? A third of the world uses Mercedes for taxicabs and work trucks. But none of this sure hasn't done a thing to dillute snob appeal of Mercedes in the USA. NONE of it. The junior cars were Packard's bread & butter during the depression years and the company would not have survived without them. There are huge lists of independent luxury car marques that tried to survive on snob appeal (even when they deserved it). Why didn't they continue? There was no James Nance to blame for Duesenberg!

As a Packard fan from when they were still making cars and as an old Detroiter, it hurts my eyes and ears to see and hear some of the things said when "histories" that have all the answers say things and name things that just were not happening. By the way, the last Detroit Packard plant was on Conner Avenue, not "Connors" and it was not as small as people who never saw it seem to think. And no matter whose "history" says what, Conner was absolutely, positively NOT a single-story plant. Furthermore, "Grand Avenue" was somewhere else and NOT where the big Packard plant was located– which was East Grand Boulevard. HUGE difference to an old Detroiter even though it may mean nothing to people today.

In the case of Packard and James Nance and Clipper...better go back and look at the REAL record of what James Nance actually did (and tried to do) to separate Packard and Clipper. Take a look at the company magazine for dealers, "Packard News" for 1952 and see what it said and what was being done then. Actually look at when Nance started the process and what happened along the way before claiming he "waited too long." That's certainly just not what happened at all and a terribly mistaken thing to say.

Posted on: 11/24 8:24:33
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Re: Engine Backfired blewout muffler & resonator
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2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

56PKRDGUY wrote:
Hello again. Thanks for the information on the distributor terminal insulator mine is fine.

I did check about fuel delivery. I have a inline fuel filter
from the tank going to the carburetor. It was old filled with
sediment from the tank really bad worst I have ever seen.
I just put a new one in.....

Could this have been my problem????


Yes, this very well could be your problem. Like my Continental, your engine might have been going through a series of running rich/starving for gas cycles. Thus the backfires.

With rusty sediment this bad in your inline filter you'll also want to check your carburetor inlet and float bowls.

Frankly at this point, I would very, very strongly recommend that you yank your tank and have it boiled out (at the very least) and sealed. Otherwise with rust this bad, you're only a moment away from more problems. I would also have the fuel line purged from rear attachment to front. Undoubtedly there has to be more crud in the line if this much is in the filter. And be sure to run a ream through the fuel line in the tank. The elbow on the pickup tube inside the tank is the critical point for clogging. Even when the tank appears clean, this little tube can be full of rust and debris.

Posted on: 11/22 7:38:47
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Re: Engine Backfired blewout muffler & resonator
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

56PKRDGUY wrote:
Hi Guys. Have not a clue on this one. Was having trouble with my 56 Packard 400 where I would be driving then all of a sudden a big jerk like the engine was skipping or missing almost like out of gas then would come back running good.
This happened enough where i was very concerned with safety driving my car.

I replaced points gaped at 16, new cap,rotor,condenser,put new wires in the distributor as the the cloth seemed frayed,checked timing 15 degrees, still have the issue when it gets warm. Also new spark plug wires. Today I drove it about 20 minutes to my destination no problem. Coming home it started to jerk again and then backfired and put a huge hole in my muffler and resonator on the drivers side.

I did check the the mechanical advance seems to work when I put higher the rpms.

Please I need help with this. Looking into getting my distributor rebuilt car has around 96,000 mile on it.

Thanks

Gary


I've never had this happen with any of my Packards. Never ever had a distributor go out regardless of miles. But I did have this exact same condition take place with one of my Continentals. With a brand-new exhaust system that had been on the car for several months. Of course there was no connection to the exhaust but all the same symptoms.

One day the car started bucking and quit. Had a helluva time getting it re-started. Next few times after sitting, I'd have to put gas in the carb to prime and get the car to start.

Turned out that the carb I had rebuilt for me by a shop was done incorrectly. Floats were occasionally sticking down and flooding the engine with gas (usually at times like on the highway where you barely notice). POW! Backfired. OR the floats were sticking in the UP position, starving the engine from getting gas.

Between the bad carb rebuild and me adding gas to prime for starts after long sits, there was an apparent accumulation in the resonators. Last time I tried this method, Ka-POW! again... only this time it blew the resonators OFF of the pipes!

Yanked the carb–as I should have done much earlier. Danged new one was expensive, but it corrected my problem. No more backfires, no more bucking and exhaust is fine.

While your Four Hundred MAY be having electrical issues. You may want to check the carb.

ALSO I recall someone I knew many years ago having a similar bucking, backfiring issue with a V-8 Packard. Turned out to be the ignition switch and related wiring. So? You'll want to check that too.

Posted on: 11/21 7:20:31
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Re: 1956 Packard Caribbean Coupé paint codes
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2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

packardguy53 wrote:
JEEEEEZ! Looking at the driver side door specifically and the car generally, I'm asking in all sincerity is that car even a candidate for any kind restoration?


Here's how to deal with the door issue (and I've changed a bunch of them over the years):

1.) Open the door and remove the inner panel and detach electrical wiring...
2.) Unbolt the door from its hinges...
3.) Find a used Four Hundred coupe door, remove the trim, glass and then bolt it on.
4.) Strip and paint.
5.) Re-install glass, regulator and window motor.
6.) Feed electrical harness into replacement door and connect...
7.) Swap the inner door trim onto the replacement door.
8.) Close the door...

The door is the easy part. What will be the tough issues are replacing the rockers and rotted quarter panels.

Posted on: 11/20 11:17:28
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Re: 1956 Packard Caribbean Coupé paint codes
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

Adriaticbluecaribbean wrote:
I will take some more pictures when we can pick it up from our shipper. Sadly this car was sitting for 30+ years in a storage unit at a cement factory. The front end of the car is almost gone.

Thank you for your helping me!


I've seen worse. Like one of my 1956 convertibles I bought in the 1970s. It had been sitting untouched for nearly 20 years... next to the ocean, outdoors, totally unprotected! Incredible that someone would allow severe damage like that to occur to such a fine automobile.

When we went to lift it onto a flatbed, the body was so paper-thin and completely rusted, it came off of the chassis and collapsed! I saved what I could but there was hardly anything left that had not been completely damaged. The interior cushions were so full of water that they had ballooned to nearly twice their original size and popped all of the leather stitching. Live plants were growing out of them! Needless to say, that Caribbean didn't get saved.

And then there is Caribbean production #1 which is presently being restored. It was pretty far gone when I first saw it, but now on the way to recovery.

Amazingly, your roof (which is normally the REALLY rusty part of 1956 Caribbean hardtops) looks intact compared to the rest of the body.

Good luck with this project. I look forward to seeing more photos. By the way, is that a Borgward sitting next to your Caribbean?

Posted on: 11/20 6:54:04
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Re: 1956 Packard Caribbean Coupé paint codes
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

Adriaticbluecaribbean wrote:
Hi,

Does someone has a list of all 2-toned and single coloured 1956 Caribbean Coupés? We have a 1956 Coupé which might has the code HEH or HAH. We can’t identify the plate atm.

Best regards


A few very important points...

• The 1956 showroom color and upholstery book (which I have) won't do you much good if you have a custom-ordered Caribbean–which is what it appears you have.

• The proper place to start is by taking clear photos of the vehicle serial plate (in the driver's door jamb). If I see it, then I can tell you many things.

• Also take photos of the interior and engine compartment... also the chrome fin toppers at the rear top of the fenders.

• I have been keeping my own records on Caribbeans since they were new, so I may have things others won't. I also have access to original order records.

• Also does this Caribbean have a gold screen or chrome screen in the grille?

If I know these things, then I can respond appropriately.

Posted on: 11/19 21:36:32
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Re: 1930 Packard owned by Earle Anthony Radio Station
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2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

traciejones wrote:
Thank you. I'll go to that page. I've also posted photos in reply to "Leeedy"'s post.


The link page has lots of omissions and several mistakes. It does not seem to understand the origin of the term, "clear channel"... and other aspects. It does not mention KFI-TV which was ECA's television station. This was where the first TV cooking show was invented. And a lot more. I still have radio scripts from KFI-AM which were written to bring the Brooklyn Dodgers to Los Angeles (YES, Mr. Anthony had a hand in this too).

In any event, the Packard you have was obviously used as some kind of promo vehicle for ECA, Inc. Possibly even a service vehicle for ECA Packard. But it was not a fixed asset of KFI radio. It was also obviously linked to the San Francisco dealership since it listed that address.

As for speculation about radio broadcasts from ECA dealerships... the Hope St. dealership indeed had a broadcast facility and transmission towers. As the broadcast facility and KFI grew, the studios were moved from Hope Street in downtown Los Angeles to a big, beautiful dedicated building in mid-town L.A. (yes, I have the photos). The transmitter was at one point located in Fullerton while the studios remained at the big location until more recent years.

By the way, KECA call letters (at least as Mr. Anthony saw them) were not merely representing "ECA = Early C. Anthony. But rather, as Mr. Anthony saw it... the call letters represented "Kelly Earle C. Anthony"... a member of his family. Yes, I know that radio stations west of the Mississippi all began their call letters with a "K"... but I relate this story as Mr. Anthony himself saw it.

Posted on: 11/19 9:31:46
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Re: 1930 Packard owned by Earle Anthony Radio Station
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

traciejones wrote:
We believe we have a 1930 Packard that may have been owned by Mr. Anthony for his radio station due to some lettering we found on two panels on the door. One said Earle C. Anthony VanNess at Ellis PR0444 and the other said Radio Stations KFI and KECA. I’m really trying to find someone who could help me track down someone with some history on the radio station and if they used this car for the station. Thanks!


• Let's SEE the car since descriptions leave out so much.

• I was a founding board member and first editor for the Earle C. Anthony region of the Packard Club... back in the 1970s. I actually worked in the building that formerly housed Mr. Anthony's Packard dealership at 1000 S. Hope St. I knew several former execs from the company and interviewed them in the 1970s. I also saved much of the literature and photos from ECA, Inc. I personally knew the last surviving senior manager for the radio division from the days when EC was still alive.

• Just because a Packard listed Mr. Anthony's radio stations it does not mean it was his personal car. Instead the vehicle was likely owned by Earle C. Anthony, Inc. (the company) which was a fairly good-sized operation. It was west-coast distributor for Packard Motor Car Company in addition to having radio and TV stations and other enterprises (including the first commercially successful neon sign business in the USA).

• A mention of Van Ness means San Francisco for certain. Mr. Anthony had a very large dealership there (the building still stands today as a car dealership). But it was common to mention both NorCal and SoCal dealerships and show these on promo cars, such as those used on the old Mobilgas Economy Runs. These would not be cars typically driven by or personally owned by Mr. Anthony himself.

• A mention of KECA and KFI is related to the stations Mr. Anthony had operating out of Southern California (the former call letters also being related to his family).

• By the way... KFI was what was known as a "clear channel" which was not a BRAND or company name as it is today. Instead "clear channel" meant the FCC did not allow other stations to broadcast on that frequency on the radio dial. In theory you could go anywhere that AM radio signals existed and potentially receive KFI broadcasts. And Mr. Anthony often did. He and his lawyer sometimes took Mr. Anthony's sailboat all the way to Tahiti and would signal back to Los Angeles if he was receiving a broadcast! Mr. Anthony also had his own private rail car that he would hook to trains and go across the country. His rail car had a very advanced and extensive radio set in it.

Let's see photos...

Posted on: 11/13 8:47:39
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Re: Packard Bikes
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2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Another bicycle that was just like the "Packard bicycle" that began this thread, just to show you the design was not so un usual for the time. AND the design had zero to do with Packard automobiles or PMCC.

Attach file:



jpg  DoubleBar1916WM.jpg (1,647.24 KB)
1249_5fa1a447b5510.jpg 2048X2654 px

Posted on: 11/3 10:41:25
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Re: Packar Plant Listed For Sale
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

RogerDetroit wrote:
Packard Plant owner makes U-turn on ambitious redevelopment vision; sweeping demolitions planned

The owner of the Packard Plant has placed the property up for sale or lease, throwing in the towel on his original ambitious but unrealized redevelopment plans for it.

Details here:
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-est ... utm_content=hero-readmore

You heard it here first.

So glad we are woring to save the Proving Grounds

--Roger--


As I've been saying all along. This just wasn't going to happen. I've had friends watching the site and the goings-on (or lack thereof).

There was no understanding of the reality of the site and the area. There was no money. There was no audience. And there were no angels.The owner kept making promises that were no way happening.

Poor Dominic must be extra-angsting... wherever he is in the universe. Heartbreaking on top of heartbreaking. I lay all this entire nightmare at the feet of the people running the City of Detroit.

Of course it could only come to this. As the Steely Dan song says..."These things are gone forever... Over a long time ago..."

By the way. thanks, but the link here does not work unless one is a paid member of Crain's news feeds.

Posted on: 10/29 18:07:45
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