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Re: Packard Bikes
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Packard newbie wrote:
Interesting stuff, Leeedy. I know it's a bit off 'Packard-topic' but this thread IS about 'Packard' bikes, and they're not REALLY 'Packard'-related, so hope it's okay if I get a little bit further 'off-topic;. Just as a tidbit sidebar, I mentioned that my bike was a single-speed as opposed to a 3-speed, which what was available at the time, before the 5/10/18 speed gear-cluster versions that hit the market shortly after. Most CCM 3-speeds had a Sturmey Archer gear-changer, that we all remember as having that little chain coming out of the centre of the hub and being activated by a thumb lever on the handle bars. They were considerably more expensive than CCM's single speed and clearly out of my price bracket in the early 60's. When I say my bike was a 'top-of-the-line' CCM, I should probably rephrase that as saying it was the most expensive single speed on the floor at my home-town hardware store. There were several and I remember riding away on MY new 'steed' thinking I had the world on a string. It came with a very cool motorcycle like kickstand and a spring-loaded air pump that engaged in a couple of point brackets under the main cross bar. And the reason I mention the 3-speed hub is because there was an old English fellow who lived in town named Archer McCrumb. He said his Mom's maiden name was 'Archer' and was the related (I forget just how) to James Archer of Sturmey-Archer. I recall him talking about the company having some pre-war motorcycle pedigree, but said his relative James, was in on the design and development of the famous 3-speed bicycle hub. Knowing you lived in Canada at some point, thought that might be of some interest. I have no 'proof' of the claim, other than his story, but no real reason to doubt it either. You seem to be pretty up on your bicycle history; know anything about it?? I know it was quite common back in the day to 'preserve' a woman's maiden name in the naming of the children of a marriage. Cool bit of trivia, eh? (as we Canadians so love to say! LOL) Chris.


Yessss, I am very, very familiar with Sturmey-Archer (S-A) multi-speed hubs. Have extensive original catalogues on S-A and I believe also a book on the development of same. But these were around long, long, long, long before today's people were conditioned to think in terms of "10-speed" and "1-speed" ... Sears (in Canada "Simpson-Sears" or just "Simpson's) sold bicycles with S-A hubs in the 1920s. People today just never knew this fact or have forgotten it. By the way... what people today refer to as a "1-speed" was once universally known simply as a "coaster brake" (which is what CCM termed it)

And (dare I mention it?) my CCM-made Packard bicycle is so equipped with S-A, Eh? And remember, Packard automobiles all began as a result of a dispute between J.W. Packard and bicycle maker (who was trying to branch into making cars), Alexander Winton... that took place at a bicycle plant!

Posted on: 1/16 13:15:30
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Re: Packard Bikes
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Packard newbie wrote:
Hi Leeedy,
That's an expensive bike for the time!! I remember buying my first bike some 30 years after that, a top-of-the-line CCM single speed and it was $24.99.
I'd take one of those AGFA Box Cameras down in the corner for a buck/nineteen though. Remember those? They took 120 film that came on a wooden spool, with a great big negative that you could just contact-print... the good old days! Chris.


Well. All I can say is that I have almost all CCM catalogues, dealerbooks and price lists from the early 1900s through the 1960s. $24.99 for top-of-the-line in the late 1960s is wow if you could get it.

As for the Colson-built Packard bicycle in the newspaper ad, it is cheap–even for the depression era. As a comparison, my own 1936 CCM Flyte (which was THE top of the line with the exception of the special CCM Racer that year) was $47.50. Remember this was 1936. The 1937 model was slightly more.

The Colson-built Packard bicycle in the ad was very cheap at $25.97... and the model in the ad was not even the top of the line that year! By the way, the price of the top-of-line Racer version CCM for 1936 was a whopping $80.00! Presuming you got your bicycle in 1967, $24.99 was still very, very cheap compared to the factory price lists. I only have the CCM dealer's accessories books for 1967 and 1968 but they do have much higher prices indicated for the bicycles. So you got a fantastic deal!

Here is a page from the original CCM dealerbook for 1936 showing my streamlined Flyte model. Yes, I still have it–still rideable, but the special Troxel "Toolbox" saddle needs a re-do (the seat had a built-in streamlined tool compartment).

For those who don't know, CCM stood for "Canada Cycle & Motor Company. In more recent years they also made sports equipment. Oh... and yes, CCM did indeed make SOME Packard-branded bicycles! Yes, I have one of these too. Who else tells you this stuff and can actually back it up?

Oh.. and yes have my original camera somewhere along with a Kodak box camera (round circles were either wind knobs or little red plastic windows where you could see which film frame number you were on).

Attach file:



jpeg  CCM%22Flyte%22WM.jpeg (764.43 KB)
1249_5e208acd64109.jpeg 2048X2730 px

Posted on: 1/16 8:11:01
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Re: Packard Bikes
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Here is yet more evidence that Packard-branded bicycles were not given away at Packard dealers to "sweeten deals."

This newspaper advertisement is from 1937. You can see that the biycle is clearly being sold by a retailer and no mention of Packard automobiles or PMCC dealerships. And no mention of being given away.

Who made this one? Colson Corporation of Elyria, Ohio.

Attach file:



jpg  PackardBicycle1937WM.jpg (616.80 KB)
1249_5e1f660a3716e.jpg 1931X3086 px

Posted on: 1/15 11:21:26
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Re: jean Peters - hughes 55 Caribbean trunk pic
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

randy berger wrote:
Just ran across this picture again. This is Jean Peters 55 Caribbean trunk with original tire and jack (original box) bought by Howard Hughes. posted for documentation of original equipment.


It might be nice to credit the copyrighted original photos that I took with my own 35mm camera in the 1970s to me... and the article/text I authored to me and publishing of same to The Packard Cormorant magazine and The Packard Club–which is where all this actually came from. Hopefully these photos are not being sold.

Posted on: 1/12 12:07:25
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Re: "Concourse" vs. "Concours"
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Guscha wrote:
Michael (JoeSantana), how could you do that? Honestly! No one is in position to correct him on this. Be so kind to align your thoughts and actions with the principles of Ingsoc* by making "all other modes of thought impossible." [Nineteen Eighty-Four, novel by George Orwell]



*Ingsoc: for when Stalin is too libertarian for you


Hello there under the bridge. There is more than just one slip showing on this site. But I assure you, if your slip is showing, I have nothing to do with it. And this selectivity isn't the Twilight Zone or George Orwell (the notion of which works two ways–unless you are operating under a bias and otherwise handicapped)–or Stalin and his ZIS. I know exactly what you're all about... some of which definitely isn't Packards–and we both know this. You can fool some of the people some of the time (and perhaps do it well)... but you can't fool all of the people–all of the time.

Posted on: 1/4 7:56:10
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Re: "Concourse" vs. "Concours"
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

JoeSantana wrote:
I think you mean Gran Prix, not Grand Prix, Leon; but, whatever, this is neither the time nor the place for such musings.

As American sophisticates, we pronounce French words in French.

The British are less sacrosanct pronouncing many French words phonetically, such as 'fillet,' pronounced as at the petrol station: Fill it.

They do pronounce Packard as if it were French, PacKARD, so give them one for that.


I don't think you read what I wrote. I meant exactly what I said and exactly what I wrote. No one is in position to correct me on this–or to change or spin what I meant to say. Dare I also say I lived in Canada part of my life and have Canadian relatives?

I wrote: "Just like some people in the USA are now calling a race with Indy cars a "Grand Prix"... which ought to make traditional fans of Formula One cringe." I have been to several of these races over the years IN the USA and people were calling them "Grand Prix" and the signs and print matter did likewise. I'm not hallucinating. So it is pointless to single me out and correct ME on this. I'm not mistaken, nor am I the one saying this or printing up the signs and tickets.

Of course none of this has anything directly to do with Packard. But I didn't start the thread and out of all of those commenting, why is MY comment out of place and others aren't??? Whether this is the time or place to "muse" about anything ought to be up to the guy who runs the site.

OR... if what I say on here is unwelcome, then I can just stop commenting, period. Your slips are showing, Joe.

Posted on: 1/4 2:31:53
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Re: "Concourse" vs. "Concours"
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Ozstatman wrote:
Or Hood or Bonnet

Or Trunk or Boot

Or Fender or Mudguard or Wing

Or Wrench or Spanner

Or .........

Or .........

Where will it end?


Ahhh... now we're getting into mistaken automotive terms and then automotive terms as they exist in North America versus other parts of the world. This is a whole different territory from "concourse" versus "Concours" or "concours." Americans using the term "concourse" are just plain mistaken and really mean "Concours" or "concours"... period. Just like some people in the USA are now calling a race with Indy cars a "Grand Prix"... which ought to make traditional fans of Formula One cringe. But the territorial and national automotive terminologies are quite another thing.

Having worked nearly twenty years for a famous Japanese car maker–and then two years more for another famous Japanese car maker, I can clarify a lot of this issue. At one point I served (among my other various capacities) as Senior Technical Writer for North America. I can tell you that the Japanese I worked with were continually perplexed and confused by terminologies in English-speaking countries. They were laboring under the notion that English is English. But automotive terms in the English language are not universal in English-speaking parts of the world.

Americans say one thing, British may use a completely different term. Canadians might spell or pronounce some things one way, people in the USA another way. And things got more confusing when the Japanese were struggling to comprehend Australian terms and pronunciations. At one point, things were in such a stir that I was placed in charge of new model training for Australia in addition to North America. I finally took it upon myself to write a complete glossary of terms as they exist in all these areas. I drew up columns and under each, I listed automotive terms, what they meant and where they were used. For instance, a "boot" in the U.K. and much of the rest of the world is what those in the USA would call a "trunk." Whereas, in American automotive terminology, a "boot" is actually the cover for a lowered convertible top! And on and on.

More on this later...

Posted on: 1/2 19:29:48
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Re: "Concourse" vs. "Concours"
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Esquireman wrote:
I have mentioned this problem to our Webmaster but I am sure he is busier with more important things. However, as Packard enthusiasts, we certainly need to reflect our knowledge and refinement of terminology. In our Owner Registry one of the options relevant to condition is:
"Concourse"
Well, most ALL our Packards are ready to at least roll down a highway or road. That, essentially, is the meaning linked to "Concourse." The proper word in our Registry application should be "Concours" (no "e"): an exhibition of items in which awards are given for outstanding examples.
Could somebody PLEASE correct this? I see the misuse of this term even with some of the most respected classic automobile dealers; let's not be among them!


Think of a "concourse" as you might a branch of a hallway lined with doors or gates, or stores–as in an airport. Like "Gate 4, Concourse B"...

Many people today say or write "concourse" when they really mean "Concours"... as based from the term "Concours d'Elegance" (meaning contest of elegance). Incidentally, "Concours" is pronounced "con-coor" and not "con-course" or "con-coors."

Posted on: 12/28 10:25:11
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Re: Display
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Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
That is a neat photo of the frame.

It looks like it’s on a dynamo, or the rear wheel looks like it.

I can’t read the plaques on the trophies very well, one looks like is says Packard Four Hundred.
What were they for?
Are the trophies still around?

It looks like there is a stripe or line on the long bar, I assume to show the twist when the system is working?

There is something printed on the box behind the two men, I can not make out what it says.

Here is the 55 frame at an auto show.
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/uploads/photos/101.jpg

Would this have been what was shown with the frame display?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sz0RZUySk0&app=desktop


No idea what happened to the trophies but they were displayed for a time in the factory showroom in the plant on East Grand Blvd. I believe the trophies were awarded in New York at the successor show to the International Motor Sport Show (see the Pan American story in The Packard Cormorant magazine). Which also begs the bigger question of what happened to the huge trophy that was awarded to the Pan American?

Note that the 1955 display chassis had at least two incarnations:
1.) Black air cleaner and other details with pre-1955 wheel covers with cloisonne centers
2.) Chromed air cleaner and other details with 1955 wheel covers

The chassis was re-vamped again for 1956 and push-button shift was included with full aluminum housing Ultramatic transmission and other detail changes.

The movie short here was keyed toward sales personnel, but the one used at auto shows was geared toward customers/buyers and had a different producer as I recall.

Posted on: 12/26 14:17:06
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Re: Display
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 621
Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
Here is a period photo of a display chassis, and the one currently undergoing restoration here in New Jersey, these current photos by this writer from a few weeks ago. The chassis has the noteworthy 1956 features of pushbutton electric shift and aluminum case Twin Ultramatic, but still retains some 1955 details, for example the 1955 type rear axle assembly. There are many interesting details; all the various dates and numbers have been carefully ground from the engine castings and the only internal part is the crankshaft. The only internal parts in the brake assemblies are the wheel cylinders.

Enjoy the photos, I suspect the chassis is or will shortly be on its way to the Proving Grounds. Be glad to answer any questions if I can.


Great photos. I recognize what looks like Fred Pittera with the trophies that obviously came from the same source as the 1952 New York International Sports Car Show given to Packard Pan American.

As for details, I see the transmission oil cooler is still a 1955 type. Also, according to Ole Book, the new restoration features an exhaust system made of highly polished stainless steel. The original (1956 version) had a chromed exhaust system.

Thanks for the posting.

Posted on: 12/26 6:50:48
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