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Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Pat.. ugh...

If I was restoring, I would rebuild. Iím going to do a frame in rebuild, drive it, and hopefully get 30k miles out of it before I need to fully rebuild.

I donít have the time or the space for a rebuild now - 5 years, and I will. Of course, I said the same thing with my 115, then screwed up a valve seat so badly that I had no choice! Trying to avoid that.

Posted on: Yesterday 17:13:56
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
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Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Well, inspection says... the engine has never been rebuilt!

Tops of the cylinders, just below the ridge, mic out at 3.255 to 3.256. The bottom of cylinders 1 and 8 mic out at 3.251 and 3.250.

So. After consultation w/Ross, I'm going to do the following:

1. Hone and re-ring.
2. Inspect timing chain, replace if worn.
3. Valve hone, or possibly valve grind.
4. Inspect rod journals, install new bearings.

Haha - so much for a simple head gasket job :)

Maybe the car will finally run like a Packard should when I'm done.

If I end up needing to do the timing chain, I'll pull the front clip and check the radiator and water distribution tube too. If not, that will wait until I have a bigger garage.

Posted on: Yesterday 8:06:47
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Adding antifreeze every 50 miles 1937 115
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
No, not at all normal.

Napa also sells test strips to check for oil in your anti-freeze, if the compression test is inconclusive. If there is head gasket leakage, there should be hydrocarbons in the anti-freeze.

A third thought - if compression and test strips are inconclusive, a leak down test should also provide evidence of head gasket leakage, or otherwise. Tracing a different problem set on my 120, but the leak down test very clearly showed a leak between cylinders 7 and 8.

Posted on: Yesterday 5:45:26
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
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Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
A few more pictures. Intakes on 3 and 4, them closeup of 8, 3, and 1 respectively. Donít mind the debris- I havenít re-vacuumed yet.

Ross, hadnít thought about re-ringing. Think itís necessary with my leak down and compression? Not opposed, just makes for a little bigger job.

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Posted on: 8/6 15:24:32
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Various CL Pickings
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Quote:

I really, really want to call this guy. I'm not going to, but I want to. Hope something like this is available in about three years!

Posted on: 8/6 10:55:26
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Quote:

JW wrote:
Check the head for straightness. How much carbon build up is in the ports? We used a bench grinder with a wire wheel to clean the carbon off of valves. It looks like an excessive amount of carbon build up, what do you suppose the cause is?


Quote:

Ross wrote:
Stunned by the amount of gook on the valve. How do they fit in their guides? Look at the wear pattern in the cylinders to get an idea if all the top rings are present and working. In the one photo of the cylinders, what am I seeing at the top of #8?


Thanks for the help guys! I didn't include the picture because I thought it was boring, but cleaned all the valves off this morning on my bench grinder wire wheel - they all cleaned up great!

There is quite a bit of carbon in the intake ports. I'll post a picture tonight when I get home. The car was running very rich; I'm assuming that is what the carbon buildup is from. Initially I think it was a combination of worn carb, mal-adjusted heat riser, and who knows? After rebuilding the carb, repairing the heat riser (twice), and getting the manifolds resurfaced and sealed up, it stopped running rich.

Ross - I was also stunned by the amount of gook. It had been running poorly for about 300 miles over 3-4 years - heavy clouds of black smoke, etc, but I wasn't expecting it to look like that!

I'll check the guides tonight.

Not sure what you're seeing on #8 - it had some spotting and corrosion just below the carbon ridge. I assumed it was from water incursion from the bad head gasket.

Oh - I have a ridge reamer. Is it worth reaming the ridges in the top of each cylinder?

Posted on: 8/6 10:52:37
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Its been a productive few days. Took the head off, and none of the studs snapped, so that's a win. A few observations:

- A ton of carbon. As expected, but I wonder if this could explain some of my issues.

- No CLEAR indication that the head gasket was bad, but #8 had a few indications of water incursion. Either way, with as dirty as everything was, I thought it was a good idea.

- All the valves looked good. All the seating surfaces are smooth, no cracks that I could see, all the springs are the same height, no cracks, etc. Got them all cleaned up and ready to go back in.

- Head cleaned off. Everything looks good; surprised at a few deep scratches and one gouge that appear to be casting defects.

- For an engine that was supposedly rebuilt, it sure seems like cross hatching isn't very good on the cylinder walls.

- The piston on cylinder #5 seems especially gunky.

Now I have to clean the block, hone the valves, chase the studs, and re-assemble.

Any other recommendations while I'm in there? Any tips for cleaning off the top of the pistons? I just use a wire brush and a scotch brite pad on a die grinder for everything else, but I'm worried the pistons might be too soft. Also, any tips for cleaning out the carbon around the intake valves? Its very thick and gunky- I'll probably see if I can find a very small wire wheel to put on my die grinder, but I was hoping someone had a better idea!

Attach file:



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Posted on: 8/6 7:55:24
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Awesome! Those are the best kind of drives. Glad you got it smoothed out.

Posted on: 8/5 13:15:58
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


526 vs. 443 vs. Model A
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
I was looking at some pictures of a 526 today that is for sale. The 6 cylinder cars have notably shorter hoods, but I haven't been able to find a picture of one next to other cars of the same vintage. Two questions.

- Are the 526 and 443 similar in dimensions other than the hood length and wheelbase? (Similar height, width, etc.)

- How much bigger is the 526 series compared to regular cars of the vintage, say a Model A.

I've seen 526s and 443s in person, but it has been a while, and I was interested in the comparison if anyone has one.

Thanks!

Posted on: 8/3 11:50:55
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Ken's 1937 120 Touring Sedan
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/8/18 5:19
From Viola, ID (but living in Norfolk, VA)
Posts: 825
Ross, thanks!

The car has 53k miles showing on the odometer. I am supposedly the fourth owner, but I have precisely zero documentation. The window sticker from 1953 and a service sticker in the door frame showing a service at 48k in November 1952 seem to agree with the stated history.

The engine was supposedly rebuilt somewhere from 2005 to 2010. Again, no documentation. The front clip has clearly been off relatively recently- the engine was painted, starter and generator painted, forward frame painted, etc. Based on compression, I had assumed the engine was good.

Suppose all this issues is just due to a head gasket? It did blow between 7 and 8.

Iím inclined to pull the front clip, send the radiator out for inspection, check the water distribution tube, and check the timing chain while I do the head gasket.

Am I being crazy and going overboard?

Edit: I think Iím just going to start with the head gasket.

Posted on: 7/30 5:51:26
_________________
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partially restored (Sold Hershey 2015)

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6550&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0


Past Packard storage locations:
Amelia Island, FL
Saratoga Springs, NY
Viola, ID
Groton, CT
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



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