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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Quote:
I would think finding a model of master cylinder and booster that work well in the stock location and some simple solutions would be a good way to move forward?


Several people have done that already, Craig's example is just one. Having driven Craig's car personally, I can't say that I find any fault in the pedal's positioning, or the application of brakes. It's a simple and elegant solution for those who wish to remain stock looking, or don't want to do my Ranger setup through the firewall.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 19:43
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Opinion? I think I've conclusively proved that it's a fact, not an opinion. But if you request that I stop trying to help people with their cars I will oblige, no arguments at all.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 19:34
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Nice sarcasm. I'm just going off of past experiences with threads getting locked, that's all.

The point of all of this thread is to either find a solution to the BTV problem, or replace the unit with something safer. It doesn't take "infinite experience, wisdom and knowledge" to know something is dangerous, all it takes is a little research to come to that conclusion.

People can bash me all they want, but everyone needs to realize that I'm just trying to make their lives safer by making them more knowledgeable about the subject at hand. And I know that if multiple people are experiencing multiple failures across multiple makes and different rebuilders then there's something rotten in Denmark.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 19:18
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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A search on the internet will show you that this is not a case of "we are hearing "loudlly" from a small minority of people relevant to the population of BTV equipped vehicles owners out there." It's spread across multiple makes and multiple years of production, even when the units were new.

But it's ok, we can just sweep this discussion under the rug like everything else around here. Heaven forbid that we actually solve something.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 19:02
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Kevin, it isn't a matter of "doom and gloom", it's a documented fact across several makes of automobiles that have used this particular unit. Ignoring the facts will not make them go away.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 18:48
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Keith, thanks.

Randy, read the article, it explains exactly how the Mercedes system differed from the Packard version. Let me give you that link again: 300SL

Quote:
Two Master cylinders were placed in front of the brake pedal separately serve the front and rear brakes. The fluid reservoir is positioned directly above the master cylinders......

From the start of production, the 300SL's brakes were fitted with servo assistance. The first 353 cars had the infamous Treadle-Vac suction servo. It was a good system except for one thing: if the servo failed, the driver was left with a braking system that simply did not stop the car. In 1955 an Ate T50 vacuum servo with a fail safe mechanism was fitted. Bolted to a bracket attached to the chassis frame, the servo is housed behind the left hand front wing. Because of the shortcomings of the Treadle-Vac servo, many cars were retrospectively fitted with the later system.


If the BTV is so safe and never suffered from failure in the '50s, WHY did Mercedes Benz replace it with something else in 1955?????

Posted on: 2010/11/22 18:39
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Quote:
Why are V8 owners reporting more failures?? Maybe because they are more modern with the V8/twin Ul-Traumatic adn more fun to drive. Here's a question, if teh V8'sare inherently bad design, why didn't this show up in the 50's/60's/70's when lots of us and our customers were driving them daily?

Fred Kanter
Friend of the turth



Spoken by someone "who was there".

What the hell is "turth"?

Posted on: 2010/11/22 18:23
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Hemmings Motor News is also of the opinion that the BTV isn't safe: http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2 ... 01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html

Posted on: 2010/11/22 18:19
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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Apparently that author is not the only one who would disagree with you: Original Mercedes SL

If you understood how Mercedes used the Treadle Vac in their cars you'd realize that the statement is correct.

Funny how Mercedes only used the BTV on the first 353 300SL's, they realized rather quickly that it was unsafe, and even upgraded existing cars with the newer unit.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 18:09
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Re: BTV rebuild kit concerns check your compensator vale
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All this BS about "Mercedes used it so it must be ok" is about to be refuted:

Quote:
Through Chassis Number 5500353 a Bendix Treadle-Vac booster unit was fitted, with a 5-1/4 inch vacuum cylinder which was integral with the master cylinder, providing the startling experience of no brakes at all if the booster unit failed. This was rectified in the later design SL, which used a separately mounted Alfred Teves ATE T50 booster unit, providing unassisted braking should the booster fail. This same unit was used in most of the 180, 190 and 220 series cars of the late fifties.


Source: http://www.gullwinggroup.org/history.php

Paragraph #18 if you don't want to read it all. Apparently Mercedes experienced BTV failures back in the '50s when we were told by "those who were there" that there were none.

Post #5 here: http://forums.190slgroup.com/showthre ... p?5799-T-50-Brake-Booster

Sticking your head in the sand and complaining about the "sky is falling" crowd still doesn't change the fact that this unit is failure prone across all makes and models, and was superseded by safer units.

Posted on: 2010/11/22 17:10
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