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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 206
With respect to the carburetor photograph. That would be the Carter catalog part number.

118-33 is associated with the WDO, while 118-68 is associated with the WGD. The part is known as a ‘dust cover’.

See the diagram in this Service Counselor link:
http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html ... loads/SC/SC-VOL23NO11.pdf

Posted on: Yesterday 19:15:32
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Re: Timing Chain wear allowance
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2013/12/21 11:14
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Posts: 206
Ross, that’s quite an informative video. I did notice the machine screw that ‘pinches’ the distributor is quite a bit easier to reach when the body is in the shed.

With respect to No1Packardman’s problem. If the basic ignition timing was set the last time the engine ran with the suspect timing chain, then after the chain was changed the timing would be advanced . . . I was going to say significantly advanced, but I don’t know how much the chain had stretched. If you don’t start all-over like shown in your video the timing will be incorrect.

Maybe in the next video you can impart wisdom on the distributor’s ‘octane’ adjustment, a feature that went away when the quality of fuel became more uniform.

dp

Posted on: Yesterday 17:16:34
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Re: Timing Chain wear allowance
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Posts: 206
No1Packardman

So last November it ran after a fuel pump change, and then disassembled to repair the head. Recently the cam chain was replaced, and it won’t start. Anything else changed/repaired? One other thing you quoted a dwell measurement, isn’t that a measurement while the engine is running, was that from last November? Right now is the basic ignition timing correct?

Unless you’ve already confirmed the cam timing using the shop manual procedure I think I would do that next, but with lifters that have bled-down I’m not sure whether you can get the published results.

I know it’s a crutch. But if it were mine I would prime the engine with a product marketed under the name ‘Starter Fluid’ . . . for an engine, not a charcoal barbeque.

War story from my past:
Some 50 years ago I was starting an iron head Sportster, with tons of compression, but an equal amount of cam shafts duration and overlap. Over the winter the engine was completely disassembled, and, considering it was a magneto equipped kick start engine, I was concerned that the first start might be difficult. The iron head was not known as one easy to start. With a soda straw through the carb I put a few inches of lacquer thinner in each inlet port. After two slow kicks, without the benefit of ignition, to distribute the thinner, I went for broke on the third kick. It started first time. I attributed the ease of start on the use of a starting fluid that was considerably more volatile than gasoline.

I think if you use a prudent amount of commercially available starter fluid you won’t do any damage to the engine. The hazards are; too much fluid is not recommended, and the possibility of a ‘back fire’ is elevated. Proceed with care and don’t look down the throat of the carburetor. Have your fire extinguisher at the ready. A squirt or two while the engine is cranking should get it to fire, and switch over to gasoline from the carburetor.

Comments from other forum users are solicited.

dp

Posted on: 6/30 17:41:39
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Re: Timing Chain wear allowance
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Posts: 206
No1Packardman

Considering what maintenance you’ve just finished on the engine I agree that the lifters have likely bled down. Every time the engine was ‘rolled-over’ to confirm the alignment of the camshaft timing marks there was pressure applied by the valve springs. At low rotational speed there would be plenty of time for the oil to escape, plus the likelihood of any oil pressure to refill the lifter would be slim to none.

If your engine is not starting because of the hydraulic lifters that would be new one on me. Quite frankly I’ve never heard of that cause and effect path. The ‘vacuum pull’ you talked about is a strong indication that the engine is fulfilling its role as an air pump, so the intake valves must be opening.

Just how long has the engine been dormant? It sounds to me you have spark and the timing is close. The hand choking result is a good indicator that the air requirement has been met. Now the gas, I’ve seen fuel sitting on the portion of the intake manifold where the heat riser is located on a cold engine that didn’t start, that is, a lot of gas presented to the intake manifold, but not all made the turn toward the valves. Tim would you categorize the fuel as ‘fresh’?

One more point. Are you attempting an engine start with the timing cover, and damper removed ? Just asking . . . limit the run time in that configuration.

dp

Posted on: 6/30 14:38:17
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Re: Timing Chain wear allowance
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 206
Be sure to 'have a go' at setting the timing as close as possible. One way is to park the engine at 6 deg BTDC and place a piece of cellophane between the points. Rotate the distributor until there is light drag on the cellophane. You can also use a light to let you know when the circuit 'opens'.

I think the low compression will place more emphasis on the timing . . . I think!

Remember you did have the distributor removed, or close to being removed.

dp

Posted on: 6/29 20:18:59
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Re: Timing Chain wear allowance
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2013/12/21 11:14
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Posts: 206
No1Packardman

OK you fixed one major problem that most of us would take some amount of time diagnosing. I’ve got a Model A with 4 : 1 compression ratio, so as far as I’m concerned you are correct, that is, the engine should start with the cylinder pressures you’ve measured.

The next thing is to double check the plug wires . . . make sure the firing order is correct, and the plugs have the correct gap, and are torqued in the head.

Check for the existence of spark while cranking and the timing is something close to the correct value.

Check for fuel delivery and quality. Did the carburetor fill during cranking & is the gas somewhat fresh.

An engine that hasn’t run in a good long while will need a good amount of choke to draw a lot of fuel through the main jet. Once fired the choke may be placed at about ½.

Sometimes both my ’48 and ’54 play games with me and will need some amount of cranking to get running. I never seem to know how many times to pump the gas to adequately prime.

dp

Posted on: 6/29 15:38:09
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Re: Wes's Maroon 1947 Custom Super Clipper
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 206
Wes;

That cover looks like an excellent way the hide my extra headlight wiring from critical eyes.

I installed essentially the same set-up mounted in essentially the same location in my ’48. I used more of the open area to what I think is to the left in Howard’s picture . . . closer to the cowl. The circuit breakers are closest to the cowl, then a gap for the hood locking mechanism, followed by the relays pointing to the terminal strip to accommodate the toe switch wiring.

I included two circuit breakers and parallel circuits, including the relays. I made this modification while I was installing the ‘one wire’ PowerMaster alternator. The output of the alternator is connected directly to the buss bar side of the circuit breaker, and then to the battery pole of the regulator. I now have a convenient location to attach another high current device (perhaps a cooling fan) directly to the alternator output.

This modification will reduce the current flow through the OEM light switch to that of the 2 relay coils, plus the rear light bulbs, about a 16 ampere reduction.

See attached PDF

dp

Attach file:


pdf HeadLightRelay002.pdf Size: 467.03 KB; Hits: 12

Posted on: 6/29 15:11:16
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Re: Packard Trips
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 206
Thanks Joe

I saw that 3 item thread and thought it was disconnected from the original by ‘little green men’ inside the software. It never crossed my mind that a ‘new’ thread could be started with the same topic name as an active item . . . but I guess it can.

Thanks again

dp

Posted on: 6/28 16:13:48
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Re: Spark Plug Cable Spacers
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2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 206
Micarta would have been around since 1910/1920. I've only seen an amber/dried blood color of that material, but any number of colors, especially black, could be made. My rubber ones are surely not rigid, and I'm more than willing to make some from Micarta, assuming some thin sheet stock is available.

Posted on: 6/26 17:48:55
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Re: 1942 Packard 160 Carburetor
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2013/12/21 11:14
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Posts: 206
auto.nut

That 643 looks like a close match to the 531.

I’ve been looking over the specs and the two carbs appear to have the same size primary venturi at 1 7/32. The 531 calls for about ¾ turns more on the idle mix screws.

The question “What to look for” has a rather lengthy answer, but since you asked.

Leaking or late closing anti-percolation valves can kill the low speed to high speed transition (20 to 25 mph). If the AP valves don’t close you’ll never make the transition and drive home at about 20 mph.

Misadjusted metering rods can also may the low to high transition difficult. That’s the adjustment that uses tool T109-113.

If the engine doesn’t run at low speed then I would check the fuel delivery, float level, and idle mix adjustment . . . and then address the first few items.

All of the Carter materials stress ‘check everything else first’ . . . like tune-up before the carburetor is messed with. Have you double checked the items in the Carter 'punch list'?

If it only runs on fuel delivered by the accelerator pump I would suspect a compromised idle circuit (dirt/rust blocking the air or fuel passages).

If the mix screws are wildly mis-adjusted in either direction the engine will not run well, if at all, on the low speed circuit.

dp

Posted on: 6/26 17:36:19
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