Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hello Everyone,

I have a 41 Packard that has no reaction when the starter button is depressed.

Here is what I Know, the vehicle has a positive ground system, the battery is good and the starter is good.

Here is what I need to know, does the starter button feed a hot or a ground to the solenoid? And where does it come from?

I tired looking through some of the schematics, but they were not much help as far as circuit detail.

Any help is much appreciated.

On the 180 first versions, starter button does supply ground to the solenoid and it comes thru the generator if wired as original. From the factory, one of the small upper terminals on the solenoid should be a short jumper to the BAT post. One wire from starter button should go to the other small terminal on the solenoid. The other wire on the starter button should go to the ARM terminal of regulator and then to generator where it reaches ground thru the windings. 42 models eliminated the short jumper and changed other wiring slightly so power was applied thru ign key via the carb switch but ground was still thru generator. Even though it wouldn't start with the original method, you could still crank the engine. In the second method you could not crank the engine with key off. While I don't find factory documentation sanctioning a change, there is some reports that some 41s were changed to more copy the later circuitry so it wouldn't crank with ign sw off -- maybe by dealers on an as wanted basis.

Theory behind the circuit is you can crank when the engine is off because generator is not putting out voltage. As soon as engine starts, generator voltage equals the battery voltage present on the other solenoid wire so it is impossible for starter motor to accidentally operate with engine running. Packard used a version of that circuit on senior engines thru early 50's but there were issues. Some war time and later bulletins advised removing the ground circuit from generator and connecting the wire directly to ground if there were intermittent no start issues. Exactly how depended on the car and model's circuit. You can do a search with the service index here on site and find the pertinent articles.

You will have to trace yours out to see if maybe it was changed from factory. The best 41 180 schematic is the A.E.A. version available on the PAC website.http://www.packardclub.org/

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I do in fact have a ground on one side of the button, but when I jump it to the other side (starter side) nothing happens. If I however supply a hot signal the starter turns, that has me a bit perplexed.

I will do some research as you have suggested. Any other ideas you may have?

I have included a picture of the starter, It has only one pig tail wire. If jumped with a hot signal the starter works, hence the reason I thought there may have been a relay in between the button and the solenoid.

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That looks like the same solenoid and starter as used on the 356 thru 50. One of the screw terminals is connected to ground and the other to voltage. Just how the circuitry was routed by Packard depends on the car model -- on some the operator's starter switch is in the ground leg. Others, the switch is in the hot side. Both methods did have the ground actually go thru the generator with the hot side either direct off battery or thru ign sw.

There is a relay inside the rectangular enclosure which does actually bring in the solenoid. Here is the schematic and info for the Autolite version from an old Motors Manual. As mentioned, Packard did it their way so ignore the drawn ground in the schematic other than it means one terminal is ground and the other voltage. The two small screw terminals on the solenoid are the one directly connected to the relay coil.

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G'day garybryan,
to PackardInfo, and I invite you to include your '41 180 in the Packard Owner's Registry here on PackardInfo.