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Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#1
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Packard 1948
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Greetings cyber car show friends!!! The engine is all apart and this is where we stand:

-Crankshaft was slightly worn so the journals will have to be turned 10 thousands.
-Cylinders were worn so a .030 over bore and new pistons is in order.
-Cam was slightly worn so a regrind is needed.
-Two lifters were excessively worn.
-Valve guides were worn
-Block deck and hear surface look good.

When putting this thing together, of course I would like to know everybody's suggestions on things that I should do,...or not do...and any tips to make the process easier and less distaterous. Any hints, tricks, suggestions you can throw (type) my way would be appreciated!!!

Questions (just the ones I thought of):

-What engine kits are better than others?
-Do the engine rebuild kits have modern style gaskets?
-Is rope style rear main seal the only option or is neoprene available (is one design better than the other)?
-What type of gear lube and what type of oil should I use?
-Ross told me the distributor needs to be indexed so that the pointer is pointing at the 730 position when the engine is at top dead center and the vacuum diaphragm needs to be pointing straight ahead (did I get this correctly)?
-The distributor and carb worked well before, do I need to do anything to them?
-Is it possible to spin up the oil pump with an electric drill to prime the engine?
-When starting the engine, my plan is to run it around 1500 rpm for 20 minutes before I let it idle... is this correct?
-Cooling system wise the flow divider is brass. I will remove the freeze plugs and have the block boiled out. Does the system need to be purged of air pockets?
-Any threads need to be sealed to prevent oil or coolant leaks?

THANKS!!!

Bill

Posted on: 2015/4/11 17:16
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#2
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Hans Ahlness
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Well now that you have it apart you can see that the oil pump is driven off the camshaft. So no spinning it with a drill. There are some studs in the water pump area that you should seal, not sure about the head studs. Since you have the thing apart it would be a good time to go through the carb and dist just because why not.

Posted on: 2015/4/11 19:24
1952 Model 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
HA's 52 Grey Ghost

"The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#3
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David Grubbs
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Bill - a couple of suggestions based on my one and only remodel of a Packard 8.
1. Remove the distributor and check it out throughly, and replace rotor, condenser, points and cap at a minimum. Adjusting it on the bench is easier than bending over a fender to do it.
2. Remove the oil pump for inspection. Frequently they are worn. Make sure that you use a new paper gasket - they are super thin to ensure that the oil doesn't bleed over from one chamber to another. Pack it with wheel bearing grease and reinstall it before the distributor. My engine was a 51, with gear teeth on it. I don't remember if the 48 is like that or like the prewar engines that had a straight bit. The older style was easier in that it was right or 180 degrees out. With mine, I kept trying to get the beveled gears in right, and failed every time. An old mechanic told me to just put the pump in, then install the distributor. Once it is meshed, turn the engine over by hand until the timing marks are lined up and see which way the rotor is pointing. That will be the number one cylinder - run the plug wires to it, and then install the new plug wires in the correct order. Just make sure that when you install the distributor that the vacuum advance will rotate without hitting the side of the block.
3. I don't think that spinning the oil pump is an option. I would pack it as mentioned above, and then spin the engine with the starter with the coil disconnected. Or when I did my engine, it was installed in the car and we pulled it with another car until the oil pressure built up well. I had to do that since the engine was pretty tight after overhauling and the starter wouldn't spin it fast enough.
4. Make sure that the timing is spot on. If it is retarded or advanced too much, your engine will overheat.
5. Take this time to have the radiator overhauled by a good shop. I had mine boiled out, but since the engine was bored 80 over, and I used rods and crank from a 327 engine, the radiator wouldn't cut it. I ended up going back and having an oversized radiator built using the old top and bottom tanks. It would have been easier for me to have done that first.
6. Remove the brass water tube before the engine is boiled out. Type in on the search tag to find articles on how to remove it. (If you haven't bought a shop manual or printed out the appropriate sections from this website, do it now! Remove the plugs and replace them.
7. if you will take your new thermostat and drill a small (1/8") hole in it, it will help you to remove air pockets. This engine isn't as bad as some V8 about air pockets, but it can happen.
8. Don't use NOS gaskets, as they were made too many years ago. I'll let others chime in on the type to use. I do like to use spray copper on the head to help prevent leaks. Once the head is back on and you've torqued it per the manual, run it for the 20-30 minutes at a fast idle, let it cool down and then retorque the head. Do this again after about 500 miles.
9. I always set the valves cold, and loose. They will be noisy, but is better to let them run a little bit loose for several hundred miles, then set them closer.
10. Kanter and others have good gasket kits. I've bought from them as well as Terrell Machine in DeLeon TX. I like both, your call.
11. On the rope versus the neoprene, I'll let some real mechanics respond.

Take lots of photos when you tear the engine down, and keep the pushrods, lifters, or anything you reuse in the same holes that they came from. Baggie the nuts, bolts etc and label it. You will forget where those funny bolts came from. Make sketches and label them. Have fun!

Posted on: 2015/4/11 19:48
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#4
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David Grubbs
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Oh just it case you have too much money and/or time, this is a good time to have the starter and generator rebuilt as well as the carb. And don't forget to install a new 00 brass cable to the battery.

Posted on: 2015/4/11 19:53
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#5
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Wesley Boyer
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Here's a good little video on rebuilding an oil pump and what to look for. I know it's not a Packard but most of the old oil pumps worked basically the same.
http://www.powernationtv.com/two-minute-tech/2min-435/how-to-rebuild-an-oil-pump
Wes

Posted on: 2015/4/17 9:26
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#6
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Wesley Boyer
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Oh, I guess you need to buy break-in oil also.
Wes

Posted on: 2015/4/17 9:36
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#7
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Packard 1948
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The bearings will be greased as usual so it will be safe to spin the engine with the starter with the plugs out to prime and build up oil pressure ...good advice.

I assume it would be best to fill the oil filter with oil.

What is break in oil and how long does one run it in the new engine?

Regarding the lifters, how does one adjust them after the engine is assembled...it looks like the intake and exhaust manifolds will need to be removed.

I see Kanter sells hydraulic lifters... I initially thought that would be a good idea however it appears from the advice on this forum that they are not a good idea.

The engine looked to be green...my dad seems to think that it should be green however other posts indicate it should be grey...was any of these engines painted green from the factory?

THANKS AGAIN guys for all of the advice.

Posted on: 2015/4/19 15:49
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#8
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Owen_Dyneto
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"By the book" all 22nd series engines were to be gray. Every once in a while a very early 22nd Series Custom 8 shows up with what appears to be a factory green engine. A plausible (?) explanation for this regarding only the 356 engine; at the same time Packard was building the first 22nd Series cars they were still building the 21st series cars in which all the engines were green. So I suppose it's possible that the occasional green 356 intended for a 21st series car got diverted to the 22nd Series production (before the engine# was applied?). But if that's the explanation, it doesn't hold for the other 22nd series engines as they were not carry-over designs (except the 6 cylinder for taxi and export).

If your engine has mechanical lifters you adjust them thru the valve covers, a rough adjustment during assembly and a final adjustment while the engine is warm and running; no you don't need to remove the manifolds. If you have hydraulic lifters you make the take-up reserve adjustment during engine assembly.

Break-in oils are pretty much a thing of the past, today's machining practices and metallurgy pretty much makes them unnecessary. These days I think of break-in oils more like a quick flush oil, use a fairly low viscosity grade of quality oil and dump it after a couple of hundred miles at the most. Replace the filter again at the same time.

Posted on: 2015/4/19 16:33
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#9
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Packard 1948
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THANKS Owen for the information!!!

>If you have hydraulic lifters you make the take-up reserve adjustment during engine assembly.

The engine has solid lifters.

I see that Kanter sells hydraulic lifters as an upgrade to their rebuild kit. Naturally manufacturers offered hydraulic lifters on the premium engines initially and then permanently on all engines because hydraulic lifters are reliable, quiet, and never require adjusting. Is this the case with the Kanter hydraulic lifter?

Does anyone have any experience with converting to hydraulic lifters? Other than simply replacing the parts and adjusting the lifters properly, what else is there to this conversion?

Does one need to pre-fill the lifters with oil (place lifter in a can of oil and push down on the push rod plunger with a pushrod and continue until the bubbles stop)?

Any advice from someone familiar with this conversion would be GREATLY appreciated.

Posted on: 2015/4/22 11:05
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine Rebuild Tips and Suggestions Needed!!!
#10
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Owen_Dyneto
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Kanter's "lifters" are newly manufactured duplicates of the original Wilcox-Rich hydraulic assembly but really are not a complete lifter assembly, they are just the hydraulic plunger assembly without the cam follower. Thus to convert from solid to hydraulics you'd also need a full set of the cam followers. I'll leave it to someone like Ross to comment on whether the lifter oiling system for mechanical lifters will function with hydraulics.

Just my own opinion, but other than eliminating the need for a valve lifter adjustment every 30,000 or so miles, the quite costly hydraulics offer no advantage other than perhaps a conversation point. The Wilcox-Rich lifters were quite reliable and used an a variety of makes, but I don't think anyone could ever say a hydraulic lifter is more reliable than a mechanical lifter.

Posted on: 2015/4/22 12:15
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