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288 Won't Go
#1
Just can't stay away
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50 2382
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Here's my horror story...I used a copper head gasket and I have never ever used any type of sealant on any head gasket I've ever installed. I cleaned up the valves, installed new rings and dropped on the head. I filled the radiator and then couldn't get to the car to start it for a week. (You know where this is going) I went back to start the car and it was locked up tight. I found water stains leaking from around the new head gasket. I pulled the head (again) and discovered water in the cylinders. After a through cleaning and de-rusting the cylinders (nothing in the oil thank goodness). The engine again turns freely.
I did some research. It turns out that when you install a copper gasket on the engine it is a requirement that sealer is used to eliminate the water leak potential. After gluing down the new gasket I still have not fixed my non start problem...be careful and install the gasket properly. Also, check the head for trueness before installing. Best of luck. I still am beating on my engine after 5 months of not getting this thing to go.
I'm going to start looking for a running 288 or 327 to get this car back on the road...I'm tired of tinkering. Spark, yes. Timing, yes. Compression, yes. Gas yes....I'm stumped.

Posted on: 2015/9/24 18:57
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#2
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HH56
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Others will have more suggestions but one thing I would suggest is an accurate compression test. You say you have compression but is it high enough. There have been too many stories of stuck valves due to various causes. If the valves managed to get wet some could have rusted in the guides. A few stuck valves and the engine will never start.

Another thing is spark quality. If the car is still 6v is the battery fully charged and spark hot enough. Cranking will drop the voltage and if it drops much below 5v at the coil when cranking, the spark will be very weak. It may jump the gap when it is being tested outside the cylinder but once on the plug and under compression it takes a considerable amount more to jump the gap. Sometimes the extra is not there. It also would not hurt to clean the plugs again. Any fuel or oil residue from lots of cranking and no starting will also hinder the spark.

Posted on: 2015/9/24 19:14
Howard
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#3
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Ross
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I don't understand what you mean by a copper head gasket-- solid copper, or copper on one face, or??? Sealer is a good idea and I always use it, but on an engine that has not yet been started I would not expect a coolant breach unless there was some pretty amazing warpage or pits.

Just on an off chance have your spark plug gaps all been slammed shut by the exhaust valves? Or is the dizzie a half turn off?: Put a penny over the number one spark plug hole. Bump the engine with the starter till you just see the penny start to float, then bring the engine to the timing mark. Be sure the rotor is pointing to number one, and then check your wires counterclockwise 1 6 2 5 8 3 7 4.

Whilst the engine is still on that timing mark loosen the dizzie and rotate it slightly ccw till the points close. Its good to check this with a test lamp or the continuity feature on a voltmeter. Now move the dizzie CW just enough to have the points open as shown by the test lamp going out. You are now perfectly timed.

Posted on: 2015/9/24 19:49
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#4
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Owen_Dyneto
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Though I've done a few headgasket jobs successfully w/o a gasket sealer, my preference is Permatex's copperized gasket sealer. Comes in a aerosol, hang the gasket and spray both sides. Also, did you remember to retorque the head - unless you had a solid copper gasket (absolutely not recommended) the composite gaskets do relax a bit after the initial torque.

Posted on: 2015/9/24 22:59
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#5
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50 2382
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Yes...I re-torqued the head (twice).
I'm going to do another compression test in the morning. I'll let you know the outcome.

Posted on: 2015/9/24 23:26
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#6
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50 2382
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Well, you were right. the compression ranges from 45-60, mostly 50. It tries hard to start but just doesn't have enough compression to fire...on to a full rebuild, probably should have done this in the first place. Unless, someone has a good running 327 they want to part with!

Posted on: 2015/9/25 15:37
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#7
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Owen_Dyneto
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For sure, not enough compression to start reliably. If you're not up to a total rebuild and everything else is in reasonable condition and the cylinder taper is minimal (perhaps 0.007" or a bit less) you could get satisfactory results for another who knows what (maybe 20-30,000 miles) by cutting the ridge, honing the walls, perhaps knurling the piston skirts or installing expanders, possibly wrist pins, and a new set of std. rings. Check the piston ring grooves carefully, especially the top compression ring groove. If worn they can be recut and a spacer installed. A valve grind at the same time might be a wise decision. Of course this is only practical if the condition of the lower end is good. When the rods are out they should be checked for straightness and if the crank journals are still nice and round and free of damage a set of new rod bearings, maybe even 0.001" oversize, might be adviseable. We used to call this type of job a "semi-overhaul" and they often gave many, many miles of useful service at far less than the cost of pulling the engine and doing a full rebuild.

Posted on: 2015/9/26 9:34
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#8
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Thanks...I already did this..taper was less than .005. I cut the ridge, yanked the pistons, honed the cylinders, and hand lapped the valves (this is where I think I messed up), installed new standard rings and bolted it back together. It is the valves for sure. Pitted seats and valves, I just didn't do it well I guess. Maybe springs too. I found a good running 51 eight for $400 nearby so I've decided to swap out the motors. I've invested too much time getting nowhere (compression is maybe 10 lbs. more than when I started). I'm pretty good with engines this one just doesn't like me. This is the second flat head I own, the first is in a 51 Ford F-2 and I resurrected that one with little troubles...I guess the bigger the harder. Thanks for all the advice.
Mark

Posted on: 2015/9/26 11:14
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Re: 288 Won't Go
#9
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Owen_Dyneto
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Since you say the valve faces and seats were pitted, just hand-lapping would not really accomplish much of anything. If you come across the same situation in the future borrow a power valve seat resurfacing kit from someone, assuming the guides are OK just do the seats and have the valves resurfaced (assuming enough margin remains).

Here's my kit, an old Black & Decker/Sioux; these are around in reasonable numbers and I'd recommend also finding someone who knows how to grind/narrow the seats and align (center, more or less) them on the valve face.

Attach file:



jpg  (104.70 KB)
177_5606de354baed.jpg 1206X798 px

Posted on: 2015/9/26 13:05
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