Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

I have posted several queries on this vehicle and have never been able to pinpoint what the actual problem is. I bought the car about 9 months ago, the engine numbers suggest it is the original block; it was freshly painted and has what looks like a fresh head gasket in it. As previously stated, the car starts, idles, revs at idle, but as soon as one attempts to drive it, there is almost no power, it bogs and will not rev up in 1st gear, and as soon as the first stop sign is encountered and the clutch is depressed, it dies. Will not restart right away, but if left for 4 or 5 minutes, it will restart, but only if the gas pedal is floored and it sounds to me like it is flooded. I have done all the obvious things including a rebuilt carb and other than idling a little smoother, no change has been effected. I am in a small town with 2 or 3 garages and nobody wants to work on older vehicles so I am left trying to solve this on my own, as a very amateur mechanic! I have spoken with countless people on it and did have one old retired, licensed mechanic take it into his home shop where he puttered on it for almost a month and could not find out what was wrong. Sorry for all the 'pre-setup' but it is necessary in order to remotely diagnose the problem. Here is my question: Could this be valve timing??? I.E. a really worn timing chain and gears, maybe even a jumped gear tooth?? To any responding, I had a compression test done on the engine (wet and dry) and the results were uniform and between 100 and 105 #'s per cylinder. One thing that is noticeable is the exhaust gets REALLY hot, right away, which seems odd to me, but I have never dealt with a flathead six before. I am thinking that I should maybe just have the engine pulled, sent to a machine shop and completely rebuilt from top to bottom, but was hoping if it was cam/valve/chain & gears related, I might get away with 'just' a timing gear job and possibly a camshaft, not having to remove the engine. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions????

I can't figure out a solution to your problem right now, but others here will be around to help.

All I can say is to go back to the basics. You have done the first part, checking the compression. Next, I would thoroughly check out the ignition system. Sounds like you may have a sticking automatic distributor advance and/or a defective vacuum chamber. Easy enough to remove the distributor and see what is going on with it.

Good luck.

(o[]o)

Thanks for the reply... The older retired mechanic I mentioned spent almost all his time on the ignition system, replacing points, condenser, cap, rotor, coil, plugs, wires, and he timed the engine, all to no improvement on the 'running' issue. He had the distributor out 2 or 3 times and went through it. He said it was okay and as a sidebar, he replaced the vacuum line between carb & distributor. He said it was advancing and returning properly. I also replaced the fuel lines and pump and one of the nice features on this vehicle is that it came with a new, stainless steel gas tank, and I have had that out to check it all too, and found nothing suspect.

You might want to do a vacuum test on it and see what those results are.

Very hot exhaust is a symptom of excessively retarded timing.

The timing marks on the front side of the flywheel can be difficult to read through the window on the front of the bellhousing located beneath the starter. It would be a good idea to make sure that the marks are legible and that the correct one is being used to check the timing, assuming that your mechanic is using a timing light pointed at the window. If some other method it being used it would be good to confirm that it matches the reading from the flywheel.

Chris,

Seeing it's running hot, very soon after starting, have you checked whether the hot box valve is opening? Another thought, I've seen a couple of Packard inlet manifolds where exhaust gasses have blown through into the inlet manifold itself. To check that, remove the carb and carefully inspect with a bright light.

With that hot exhaust, the timing is almost certainly retarded. For the time being, forget about timing marks. Loosen the distributor enough so that you can just turn it. Start her up and and rotate the dist. slowly CW a tiny bit. You should hear the idle pick up noticeably. Keep doing that a little at a time till further turning has no marked effect on the idle speed, then back it off CCW a little and lock it down. If the engine bucks against the starter on the restart, you will have to back the dist off a little farther.

If your timing is as far off as I suspect, you may have to reduce the idle speed as you go along. There will be an adjusting screw on the base of the carb that bears on an arm on the throttle shaft to do that. The other screw with a spring wrapped around it on the base of the carb is for adjusting the idle mixture. If you have success with the timing procedure above, you can tweak that screw in and out as needed to get your smoothest idle.

The new head gasket hints that perhaps the car has just had a valve job. I have witnessed more than one case where the valves were not adjusted either properly, or perhaps at all afterwards. All other work will be for naught if they don't have sufficient clearance. The engine will skip, buck, and stall as soon as it warms and the valves expand. Without looking, I think you need at least .012 on the exhausts, and .008 on the intakes with the engine cold.

Many thanks for the input and suggestions. I have found a 'current' mechanic (licensed and currently working in the trade) who says he will have a look at the valve and timing chain 'health' of my engine. He says there are a couple of ways to test for an excessively loose chain/worn gears, which he will do. He is also concerned with the camshaft possibly being worn round and when he checks the valve travel, I will make sure we have the suggested clearances in the intakes and exhausts. I am so tired, frustrated and fed up with trying to solve this problem, that I am thinking more and more that it might be the smart thing to do to just have the engine removed and sent to a rebuilders for a complete overhaul. If this valve/cam inspection doesn't turn up anything, I think that is what I will do, and I can 'quit it' with these posts. Many thanks though, to all who have put up with, and submitted many helpful suggestions! Also, to Ozstatman, I am presuming when you refer to the 'hotbox', you are referencing the heat riser valve?? If so, yes, I did check that and it was frozen shut. I sprayed it numerous times with 'Free-All' and got it completely free. The spring was gone (probably broken off by someone trying to free it with vise-grips) so I wired the counterweight up so it is open all the time.

You should really do as Ross suggests and check and adjust the timing. All the symptoms that are describing are classic symptoms of a timing problem. Start with the basics and move forward. Even though its frustrating but preforming a complete rebuild without knowing the root of problem could still lead to the same results.

Thanks
James

Isn't the counterweight up when the flap is in the closed (cold) position?
Mark