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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#21
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58L8134
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Hi Leon

Were those spare scripts in the event of damage or removed from one of the cars during modification?

Steve

Posted on: 2018/8/8 9:48
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner. Thinking about my next Packard, want a Clipper Deluxe Eight, manual shift with overdrive.
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#22
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Let the ride decide
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The picture of the modified car, looks like the script is chrome, I can't tell on the gold colored car what color the script is. The other pictures in the article are black & white so no discernible color.

Posted on: 2018/8/8 12:39
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#23
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Leeedy
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Quote:

58L8134 wrote:
Hi Leon

Were those spare scripts in the event of damage or removed from one of the cars during modification?

Steve


Hi Steve...

Neither. The logos here are from a Pan American currently undergoing restoration. They are dead original, just as they were removed from the car. Very delicate pieces too! But all intact. But... it would be nice if I could get my hands on the medallions that MichaelP posted on here a few years back. Wonder where they ended up?

Posted on: 2018/8/8 18:02
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#24
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Leeedy
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Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
The picture of the modified car, looks like the script is chrome, I can't tell on the gold colored car what color the script is. The other pictures in the article are black & white so no discernible color.


Okay, all of this stuff will be covered in the upcoming article to be published in The Packard Cormorant magazine.

However, in the meantime, both the white car and the gold car were extensively modified, with the white car being the worst of the two. So I don't recommend going by much of anything you see on either of these two cars as a historical reference.

Again, the original Pan American door logo scripts were gold plated. Trust me on this.

Posted on: 2018/8/8 18:07
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#25
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49 matt
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Pan American excitement aside, what info on prototype Caribbean? Did I mention I have two different shades of green on the fenders other than the original brown green?

Posted on: 2018/8/19 20:21
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#26
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Caribbeandude
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Leon, GREAT article on the Pan Americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on: 2018/12/10 18:18
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#27
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Leeedy
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Thank you for the kind words. Presuming you mean in the latest issue of The Packard Cormorant? The Packard Pan American history as you see it was compiled over many years and frankly took a lifetime of collecting, chasing people and stories and cars... and saving letters, notes, news clippings, literature and more. As it turned out, we had to cut a significant portion of the text and a LOT of images to fit it all in. Most of the photos in this The Packard Cormorant magazine issue have never been published before. So very glad you are finding it enjoyable.

Just another evidence that membership in The Packard Club has its rewards... and if you're missing out on The Packard Cormorant magazine, every issue is jam-packed with goodies to warm any Packard lover's heart!

Anyone who found my info and images in the Hemmings Daily blog of interest will find triple all that in issue #173 of The Packard Cormorant magazine. If you truly love this Packard history, this one will keep you busy reading for a long time-if I do say so myself.

I've been a member since the 1970s.

Posted on: 2018/12/10 19:14
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#28
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58L8134
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Hi Leon

Just received the new Cormorant, slowly reading what has to be the definitive work on the Pan Americans, kudos! Your sharing of never-before published photos taken during the building process are icing on the cake. Here's hoping the two missing cars turn up eventually.

Regarding the '53 Studebaker 'convertible' in the horse-jumping photo on page 26. Dealers who were instantly dismayed by the clueless management decision to not include a convertible in the model line took matters into their own hands, sort of. What they did was modified cars to have lift-off hardtops. Of course, given the flexible, light-weight '53 frames, bracing was applied but the results were uneven dependent upon the engineering capability of the custom shop. 'Turning Wheels', the SDC publication has run various features on these aftermarket conversions over the years.

Again, great article that will become the standard reference.

Steve

Posted on: 2018/12/10 19:50
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner. Thinking about my next Packard, want a Clipper Deluxe Eight, manual shift with overdrive.
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#29
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Leeedy
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Quote:

58L8134 wrote:
Hi Leon

Just received the new Cormorant, slowly reading what has to be the definitive work on the Pan Americans, kudos! Your sharing of never-before published photos taken during the building process are icing on the cake. Here's hoping the two missing cars turn up eventually.

Regarding the '53 Studebaker 'convertible' in the horse-jumping photo on page 26. Dealers who were instantly dismayed by the clueless management decision to not include a convertible in the model line took matters into their own hands, sort of. What they did was modified cars to have lift-off hardtops. Of course, given the flexible, light-weight '53 frames, bracing was applied but the results were uneven dependent upon the engineering capability of the custom shop. 'Turning Wheels', the SDC publication has run various features on these aftermarket conversions over the years.

Again, great article that will become the standard reference.

Steve


Thanks, Steve. However when you speak of "standard reference" this was exactly what I thought I had written 34 years ago for TPC in my history of the Packard Panthers (The Packard Cormorant, Spring 1984).

No one, no source, no publication had ever published many of the photos nor any of the serious factual information regarding the Packard Panthers prior to that time. In fact, NOBODY up until that time knew just how many Panthers had been made, how they got made and exactly who made them. I thought surely this was a high water mark and the piece would become a "standard reference." But I was so wrong. The article was so very right, but as a "standard reference"? Nah. It was trampled to death.

To this day, there are still people in books, magazines and the internet actually quoting from that article, yet they don't even know they are quoting it. Or me. And there are numerous instances where people are quoting my personal friends from Creative Industries as if-oh yeah-the folks doing the quoting actually talked to my friends (they never did, but they make it appear that way). Often times these quotes come out with people writing them who are obviously unaware that the people they appear to quote are actually long dead!

You see, two years later along came a big news stand magazine with access to all this same stuff that I had written and published and ...SHAZAMMMM! There were the same photos and the same info... only without MY name on them! All published as if I were a mere bystander and the TPC article was merely something that fell off the shelf and by magic blew in over the transom and appeared at the big magazine. I didn't like that... and I still don't...34 years later.

Oh, I was mentioned in the text of the article as if in passing, but the "standard reference" aspect of the TPC article? Ignored...obliterated... minimized... and otherwise rendered almost meaningless. From that point on, it was the big magazine and their clone article that got the credit for being a "standard reference"... after all my years of hard work... and info and photos no one had ever seen before. The auction companies... the internet web sites... and on and on didn't even know about the original TPC Packard Panther history. Nor do they know I wrote it. Nor do they know the fact that it set the history on paper for the first time and published photos no one had ever seen before. Even those photos were and still are pirated on the internet... with no credit for where they originated.

Every real writer has a desire to get credited for their work-just like any artist. So thank you for the praise. But in this hobby, "standard reference" status is not who gets there first with the most... but rather who gets there biggest with the most from the first.

Thanks again for the kind words.


Posted on: 2018/12/10 21:50
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Re: The Search For The Missing Packard Pan Americans (and a bit about prototype Caribbean #1)
#30
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Mahoning63
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Excellent work, Leon! Absolutely fascinating. Your recounting of the first International Motorsports Show and build up to the big "Mystery Sport Car" reveal had me on edge of seat! Thank you for your incredible contribution, and thanks to anyone who helped you with the research and editing, of which am guessing might include Stuart?

Had so many questions as I read. For sure was wondering if there was any info on cost to build the Second series. Same as #1 or was Henney able to find efficiencies? Could the cost to produce a small run been reduced in some meaningful way had certain design changes been made and all work done at standard pay with no overtime?

Henney comes out looking very good. Seems Packard never figured out how to fully leverage that company's unique and incredible talents in the early 50s. Am left wondering if somewhere between the style-first Pan American and utilitarian Executive Sedan/Corporation Limousine there were opportunities in the $7,000 - $10,000 range to do low volume exciting vehicles that would have put Packard out in front of Cadillac. On related note found your comments about Nance's attitude towards Packard's designs of that era noteworthy. I think Reinhart emerges as one of the true masters, but apparently the subtlety of his Contour design and how to build on it was lost on Nance.

Paul

Posted on: 2018/12/16 22:12
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