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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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BDeB
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Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
It appears that it is at least off by 90 degrees as the outlet should face forward. Here is a photo of the pump from my 1954 Patrician blog and yours should be the same, yet I see one of the fittings aiming forward the outside of the car. You'll definitely have to take it off again to see what's amiss!


The orientation of the pump as shown in post #405 is correct with the outlet pointing towards the front of the car

Posted on: 2020/11/18 23:08
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Packard Don
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You're right, difficult to tell on a mobile device. Also, you may have already discovered that the flexible line is easier to attack before the pump is mounted.

Posted on: 2020/11/18 23:11
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Packard Don
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You're right, difficult to tell on a mobile device. Also, you may have already discovered that the flexible line is easier to attack before the pup is mounted.

Posted on: 2020/11/18 23:11
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Howard - Cutting the hole in the trunk is an option, but not one that I'd like to do if I can avoid it. I might drop the tank one more time, but after that I'm throwing in the towel and getting the cutting wheel out.

Don - the pump inlet and outlet are as pictured on other 327 engines I've seen (BigKev and Ross). The outlet should go towards the front of the car, and the inlet points to the rear. Pictures I've seen have a 90 degree fitting on the rear inlet side, pointing out towards the side of the car. I'm assuming this is to aid the flex hose from having too sharp an angle. The old pump I pulled off had the in/out ports backwards by 180 degrees, and therefore the fuel line to the carb was all sorts of weird. I've attached pictures showing the old vs new pump, BigKev's engine, and one that Ross posted earlier.


Still no luck on the fuel. I filled the float bowl on the carb a couple of times and the engine started for maybe a few seconds, but that failed to get the pump to push any fuel. Tried several times with same result. Also pulled the gas cap and gently blew some compressed air into the tank (sealed the rest of the fill tube with a rag) to see if I could push fuel past the pump. Still nothing.

Is it possible that the cam rider isn't seated on the cam? I tried as much as I could to make sure it was on the cam, but there is literally no way to see once the pump is in there.

I should also add that I haven't hooked up any vacuum lines to the pump yet. NAPA doesn't have what I need. So I just blocked them off with tape. The old pump's vacuum ports were wide open, but it still worked....

Frustrating.

-Kevin

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Posted on: 2020/11/18 23:36
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Packard Don
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None of the pumps I have use an arm like those shown on your pumps. Mine are like the one in the photo I posted a couple entries back. However, without comparing them more closely (and mine is 550 miles away) it's difficult to tell if the effective length and angle are the same.

When you crank the engine without tape on the vacuum connectors, can you feel any suction? If not, then it seems that the arm is not properly contacting the cam so probably best to pull it out and check.

Posted on: 2020/11/19 3:48
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Don - the pump you showed has the "bubble", for lack of a better word, on the outlet side of the pump. From what I've read that was only a thing on the '51-52 pumps. But they should all be interchangeable between years I would think.

I'm heading back into the garage to do some troubleshooting. I'm going to get the car running today. Hopefully.

****EDIT - just checked the vacuum ports while the engine cranks, and there is definitely suction. So the pump seems to be installed on the cam correctly. I'm at a loss here. I think my next step is to disconnect the flex hose and see if I can either suction or pressurize fuel to reach that point. Then maybe inject some fuel into the inlet side of the pump?

-Kevin

Posted on: 2020/11/19 11:20
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Ernie Vitucci
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Good Morning...Our 1949 288 will take four four second cranks before she starts/receives fuel when she has been sitting for a week...if only a day or two, she starts right up. Don't know how much cranking you are doing...wonder if there is a piece of rubber tubing under the car, in the fuel line, or pin holes in the metal fuel line that is causing the pump to loose suction, thus not bring fuel from the tank to the pump to the carb. Just a thought. Ernie in Arizona...ps...am impressed with the work you are doing...

Posted on: 2020/11/19 12:14
Caretaker of the 1949-288 Deluxe Touring Sedan
'Miss Prudence' and the 1931 Model A Ford Tudor 'Miss Princess'
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Ernie - thank you. It was taking quite a bit of cranking. The car hasn't been started in over a month and all the fuel system components were new (and empty) except for the main line from the front to the back.


Success! I unattached the flex line at the hard line connection, then blew compressed air into the fuel tank and confirmed that fuel was making it to the front of the fuel line. Then used a large syringe and injected fuel through the flex line into the inlet side of the fuel pump (about 50ml at least). Refilled the carb float bowl and got it to start. It was very rough at the beginning but got better.

The fuel pump (vacuum section) was super loud for several minutes, but that eventually quieted down as well.

The Good
-Oil pressure on the gauge shows about 25-28 lbs at idle once warmed up. Increased to somewhere above 30 when rev's increased. I'm assuming that's a decent reading.
-Temp gauge works now, so that's a positive. The picture shows the temp after idling for 15 minutes. Not sure what that correlates to in actual degrees Fahrenheit.
-New heat riser spring seems to work as expected.

The Bad
-Car still smokes out the exhaust a lot. I'm not sure what to make of that. I can't tell what it smells like (no sense of smell right now) but I'm assuming it still smells like oil. Fuel coming into the glass bowl is clean and clear.
-Also seeing two spots of smoke/vapor in the engine bay. One is coming from the heater box, which makes me think the heater core is leaking. Correct? The other is coming from somewhere down between the intake and exhaust manifolds. See arrows on picture. No idea what the second one is.
-I'm not seeing any flow through the radiator once operating temp is reached. Upper hose is pretty soft, and I've never felt any coolant run through it. Stuck thermostat maybe?
-Car stumbles and dies on anything but the very lightest acceleration when in gear.

-Kevin

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Posted on: 2020/11/19 13:10
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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HH56
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On the question of the approximate degrees per position on the temp gauge, a few years ago another poster who posted under DrewLA did some experiments on his 52. If you are curious and do not have an actual thermometer reading you can compare his ohm readings of the sender at a specific temperature to get an approx temperature equivalent with the ohm readings at the various needle positions. His results should be relatively close to what you could expect on a 54. With the position of the needle barely on the M, based on the charts I would put the temp somewhere just above 190 degrees.

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Posted on: 2020/11/19 13:28
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Tobs
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Hi Kevin, good progress! You say that the engine stumbles and dies on anything more than veeery slowly accelerating. Is your accelerator pump working properly? A freind once rebuilt his carb and the accel pump was k-o he had similar symptoms.

Oil pressure looks good. These engines will only make 35psi if I remember corectly. The oil pump has a relief valve.
Water temp in the middle of the gauge looks good to me. Keep an eye for drips from your heater core, the whisps of steam indicate a leak there.

Posted on: 2020/11/19 16:04
1953 Clipper Delux Club Sedan, 1969 912, 1990 Miata, 2009 Ford S-Max.
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