Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Somehow my topic got put into post war threads. Probably my fault.
I had another question about it. And perhaps everyone has helped as much as possible. If so thanks so much.

In looking at the post war overdrive manual, r-10 and r-11 it explains that there is a blocking ring that can get out of alignment. Is there a ring on the prewar r-9 overdrive.

Also I had asked if someone knew Jim Hollingsworth as he seems to be a 1940 expert.

Thanks Todd.

The R9's are the same mechanically as far as operation. If you are referring to the "balk ring" then it is present.

In looking at the Econodrive servicmans training booklet (1946 version downloaded from site) instructions, there are a couple of things mentioned. When you installed the solenoid, did you energize it by grounding the governor wire (pg 13) so the stem was all the way out before engaging in pawl? Also, there is a caution on pg 18 about solenoid orientation as a reason for not engaging.

There is an article in Service Counselor Vol21,#14 pg 69 re engagement if the balk ring is worn & has insufficient friction. Only mentioned in passing since you had a working unit.

Todd, Packard used the R-9 from 1940 to at least 1947 so all pre war Packards will have an overdrive with the blocking ring. I will PM you Jim Hollingsworth's phone number.

Packard actually switched from R9 to R11 during production of the 49 models. I have two 49 convertibles, one with an R9 and the other with an R11.

According to Packard records, Eights through engine number 272006 were equipped with R-9s and those after 285157 were equipped with R-11s. For super Eights, those up to 424978 were equipped with R-9s and those after 427710 were equipped with R-11s. The Customs up to number 610359 were equipped with R-9s while those after 611500 were equipped with R-11s. These numbers leave 13,151 Eights, 2,732 Super Eights, and 1,141 Customs that could have been equipped with either overdrive unit. During this time Packard was experiencing difficulties with deliveries from Borg Warner and Spicer, among others. It is likely that the R-11 overdrives were not consistently available, so, Packard simply equipped some of these cars with R-9s they already had on hand. Based on Packard records 17,024 cars can't be determined which were equipped with which overdrive.

Just goes to show how confusing it can be.

Thats pretty good information!

It would be neat to try to put together some type of Spreadsheet/Timeline that shows by Series/Year/Model what overdrive units were used and any running changes to the govenors, configuration, electrical, etc. I am sure that would be a great usefull document to turn into an article.

All good information. Thanks. Why I am looking for someone that has dealt a lot with the R-9 is that this solenoid has the longer stem, and a round ball on the end with no flats. And in the past have not had to energize it to get it to engaged. Perhaps just luck. And this is why I mentioned before that with the solenoid out I can stick my finger in and push the pawl in about half an inch and it would lock the drive shaft from turning in one direction. If this was correct or not. And when I would manually pull the pawl back out the drive shaft was free to move in either direction. If this is correct this I would think eliminate the overdrive itself as being the problem. If this is not correct then I might try, as in the manual for the r-10 a nd r-11 align the balking ring if there is one. By the way this is from a manual for a Studebaker Warner overdrive. Again, which may or may not apply to the Packard Warner r-9.

Todd, As you may have already guessed I am not an expert on the Borg-Warner overdrive and have only experience with the one in my '47. The procedure that I have used to engage the solenoid into the pawl on my R-9 equipped car has always been to energize the solenoid and reach the shaft in the hole in the case slanted towards the front of the car and try to slip the ball on the end into the slot in the pawl. I never have been able to engage the pawl any other way. I recall that it was easier if the pawl was slid back towards the hole in the case and not in the engaged position. The solenoid shaft on my car has no flat spots on the shaft. It is round and has a small ball on the end and is original to the car. The later overdrive units engage the shaft differently as per the manual you have on the R-10- R-11. Once I have the shaft attached to the pawl I push the solenoid against the case and bolt it down. You can de energize the solenoid once the shaft is attached to the pawl. The pawl can be felt and should move back and forth against the balk ring and it does lock the driveshaft in one direction (reverse)if it happens to be aligned with a slot on the ring. I did find that the plunger seal seal was defective and would bind the shaft prohibiting it from moving in and out when the solenoid was bolted to the case. Hope this helps.

Yes it does help. And you are more of an expert than me. Every other time I put it together it worked just fine, what a genius I must have been without knowing it. I will try to energize the solenoid. So to have the shaft push out I understand I need to ground the governor. Does the solenoid need to be grounded also? Perhaps to the chassis before attaching to overdrive? In other words run a long clip lead from the solenoid body in my hand to ground (+) on the chassis? Now then I can tell you that when I go to insert the ball into the pawl I will need to apply inward pressure to get the bolts started. Because, now without the shaft extended I already need to apply inward pressure on the solenoid to start the bolts. So there will need to be even more pressure applied to push the solenoid flange against the spacer and in turn the overdrive.
So lets see we push the ball to the pawl, to install, tilt as much as it wilt, pray that it will stay, the spacer is straighter to engage her, and the bolts aren't to short to engage.
Well now that, that is explained how about the governor, perhaps we should just runover.
Wasn't there something like this in a Danny Kay movie? The poison in the pestal, etc. Or was it Who's on First? I dunno!

Talk to you soon. Todd.

Todd, I don't see a need to ground the governor to get the solenoid energized. It has been a while since I had problems with mine but I do recall that I gounded the solenoid with a wire to the chassis as you suggested. Tilt the rod towards the front of the car and swing it back level and you should have the pawl hooked. Now detach the ground and the solenoid should bolt up without resistance. That's the best way I can explain it.

Had a bit of time to play today. Put in the rebuilt solenoid. Thinking that it should work perfectly. And put on a new cap on the governor, again thinking that it should work just fine. This cap has adjustable screws, which the original cap did not. I hope they are set properly. Then turned ignition on and did a recheck of everything. Checked the kickdown switch, in the rest position had continuity and when the accelerator depressed no continuity. Hope this was correct. But, now could not get the red light to come on when the right side of lockout switch was grounded, and could not get the relay to click. Then I pushed the top contact on the relay and the bottom contact sometimes would make momentary contact and sometimes hold in. Don't know which way is correct. And now the red light would come on. Took it for a test drive and it worked once. Then not again. I think that the rebuilt solenoid could possibly not be working. I opened up the origianl solenoid and it was full of oil, but cleaned the contacts and hooked it up to a battery as told before case to ground, and I think number 3 and 4 to test. The shaft did stay out when pulled, and the other number did motor boat. So I think that I am going to put the original solenoid back in, in a day or two, but this time have it energized, and check the blocking ring placement. Any further ideas would be appreciated. Thanks again.