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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#21
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Leeedy
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Quote:

DaveB845 wrote:
I have seen the 1954 Plymouth Belmont in both red and teal paint. I believe it's the same car, but with different paint. Seeing it, up close and personal, in the Atlanta concept car museum display, I was surprised by the lack of sophistication in the interior. Apparently, they just took the standard Plymouth steering wheel and column out of a Belvedere sedan, complete with plastic transmission shift indicator that showed "Hy-Drive" proudly on it. The Belmont was done in fiberglass, possibly in response to Chevrolet''s new Corvette.

To me, the choice of the 1954 St. Louis Automobile Show was an unusual pick for its debut site. That might have rubbed some salt into the wounds of some Corvette assembly workers who were making Chevy's version about eight miles away. That car show venue was my first car show as an eight year old. I didn't miss another until the military took me away. So, I might have actually seen the Belmont three times. And it might have meant that the first time with the Belmont was utterly forgettable.


Yessss. The original color of the Belmont was a light metallic blue (I believe called "Azure"). The "resale red" car of today is that same car after going through many hands (and auction companies) and with a few modifications tossed in the mix by various owners over the years.

One of these mods (thankfully removed) was a-you guessed it-back porch continental kit. Er... the Mitchell Panther once had a continental kit installed on it too! Danged thing was so long and heavy it couldn't get in or out of Creative's driveway on East Outer Drive (Detroit).

Suspect that J.J. Nance probably agreed with Dave's assessment. Got news fer ya... I am absolutely, positively convinced the Belmont was originally intended to be a Packard. If you've seen my Packard Concept Car presentation, you'd know about this. And you may just see some proof upcoming in an issue of The Packard Cormorant magazine...

Posted on: 2014/7/28 16:28
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#22
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RogerDetroit
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Oh, and I found another Brownlie image of the left, rear quarter of a "1957 Clipper" that I had on my iPhone.

Again, your comments.

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Posted on: 2014/7/29 19:00
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1941 Model 160 Convertible Sedan
[url=http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#23
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JWL
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To me, non of the Briggs designs shown say Packard. They could be for any manufacturer. Actually, I think they are, for the most part, unattractive even for 1957 styling.

(o{}o)

Posted on: 2014/7/29 21:56
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#24
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Leeedy
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Bill was screaming "OLDSMOBILE" here... loud and clear. If only he was around now to explain the philosophy behind this design! Ohhhh, that would be a good one! Thanks for sharing.

Posted on: 2014/7/30 12:41
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#25
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Steve203
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Bill was screaming "OLDSMOBILE" here... loud and clear.

The production 54/55 Clipper rear has always had an Olds look to me. But then the Olds looked like the 51 Frazer. The irony being the 51 Frazer was only built to use up remaining 50 model year parts before the Frazer brand was dropped.

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Posted on: 2014/7/30 17:54
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#26
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58L8134
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Hi

Two words comes to mind when I see the '54 Plymout Belmont: inept styling. It appeared in its resale red iteration at Hershey a few years ago. It was surrounded by the curious but few seemed taken with it. The front is the same configuration as the rear of the '52 Ford but sectioned and grille added....it ain't pretty! The remainder looks heavy, ungainly and uninspired, as bad as its contemporary showcar, the '54 Dodge Granada. I doubt if Virgil Exner penned those things....unless he was having a really bad day suffering a bad hangover! BTW, a "back-porch continental kit" couldn't spoil the Belmont, it already was!

Thanks for the Bill Brownlie images, they show the '50's design trends nicely. Its rare to find designer not working in that vein, Brownlie was in step with his times. While they're not as appealing as what Teague did for late Packards, they'd have been prefectly acceptable as Dodges or DeSotos.

Of the Continental Mark II: Its been a longtime favorite though it seems to lack to a degree the verve of the original '40-'41 Continental. Certain areas such as the steep windshield rake and slightly too-long rear deck (sized to accomodate a folded metal convertible top) detract.

One problem that bugs me personally is the front wheelhouse which isn't quite open enough at the top, tends to cover the upper portion of the tire as the front springs relax. Looking toward a rear three-quarter view, the front wheel disappears a bit too much, it really could have benefitted from more open front wheelhouse and wider front track.

It's well to remember the Continental Mark II was very much a vanity for the young Fords then in charge. It had little chance of commercial success but was done to show the rest of the industry they could run Ford Motor Company well and build one of the best cars in the world, costs bedamned. The money they lost on it wasn't enough to sink the company and they ended up with darn nice cars to sport around Detriot in, Continentals that looked great in the DAC parking lot!

Steve

Posted on: 2014/8/1 10:01
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#27
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Owen_Dyneto
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I agree, Steve. The kindest word I could use to describe the Belmont is "awkward". On the other hand I think the Fire Arrows were knockouts!

Posted on: 2014/8/1 10:49
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#28
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Dave Brownell
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The late and great Virgil Exner is off the hook for both the 1954 Plymouth Belmont and the Dodge Granada. My copy of "Chrysler Concept Cars 1940-1970" blames the Belmont on Al Prance of Briggs. Bill Robinson had done an earlier version but it was Prance who "corrected it" to the version we see today. The interior seems to have changed as often as the color of this car, including some versions with floor shift and some with Hy-Drive column indicator. Ionia Manufacturing and Creative Industries are responsible for the even worse 54 Dodge Granada. To me, it looks like a cross between the 58 Packard Hawk and a Daimler SP-250. Both could have easily been shifted over to a Packard label by some minor grill changes.

For me, I'll be happy for Chrysler to claim the credit for both. Apparently, the Motorama 1953 Corvette really got many to think about fiberglass two seaters. I do like what Richard Teague did with the Gray Wolf/Panther when his turn at bat came up. Imagine the thrill of seeing that car when the hood was opened to reveal a large iron Packard straight eight. Did the second version, the one that was updated with 55 rear treatments, ever get a V-8?

Posted on: 2014/8/1 12:38
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#29
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ECAnthony
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All four Panthers. even the last two updated with the 1955 rear ends, still have their original straight-eights.

Posted on: 2014/8/1 20:39
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Re: Ex-Packard Designers
#30
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Leeedy
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Quote:

DaveB845 wrote:
The late and great Virgil Exner is off the hook for both the 1954 Plymouth Belmont and the Dodge Granada. My copy of "Chrysler Concept Cars 1940-1970" blames the Belmont on Al Prance of Briggs. Bill Robinson had done an earlier version but it was Prance who "corrected it" to the version we see today. The interior seems to have changed as often as the color of this car, including some versions with floor shift and some with Hy-Drive column indicator. Ionia Manufacturing and Creative Industries are responsible for the even worse 54 Dodge Granada. To me, it looks like a cross between the 58 Packard Hawk and a Daimler SP-250. Both could have easily been shifted over to a Packard label by some minor grill changes.

For me, I'll be happy for Chrysler to claim the credit for both. Apparently, the Motorama 1953 Corvette really got many to think about fiberglass two seaters. I do like what Richard Teague did with the Gray Wolf/Panther when his turn at bat came up. Imagine the thrill of seeing that car when the hood was opened to reveal a large iron Packard straight eight. Did the second version, the one that was updated with 55 rear treatments, ever get a V-8?


Again, as I said in an earlier post, there are many mistaken ideas regarding the Belmont. And the Chrysler Concept Cars book has a few serious mistakes and omissions in there. Putting this all on Bill Prance is not accurate either. And again, as I stated previously, there is a Packard connection.

As far as the Granada is concerned, Creative and M-B only worked with what they were handed. It is not as if they styled the car... at least with the exception of somebody, somewhere along the way adding chopped-off Panther/Clipper tail lights onto the Granada... and that's another story for another time.

Finally, the presumption that the Panthers were a reaction to the release of GM's Corvette is mistaken. If anything, it was just the reverse. GM was just one of the first major car makers out of the box with one, but while others were working on the same ideas at the same time. Everybody from backyard mechanics to major car companies was working on a fiberglass sports car in the very early 1950s. There wasn't a car magazine published at the time that wasn't buzzing about fiberglass bodies.

Again, as I have stated earlier, Packard was already working on making a fiberglass (or what they initially called "plastic") car well before the war. George Walker and John Reinhart were two of the designers working on this project. This is well documented by at least 1941. By the postwar period, the work resumed, but not on any urgent basis. It is my belief that Jim Nance simply switched the priority on fiberglass to "urgent" as of his beginning with Packard. AND, I also believe that Nance rejected the existing designs that he was first shown and this created the stage (and the urgency) for the Panthers to be designed and built. Nance was not a man who liked to sit around and suck cigars while musing forever ad nauseum about doing something. He shared a philosophy with Earle C. Anthony whose slogan was "...if an idea is worthwhile, don't just sit around talking about it...DO IT! If not, forget it." Despite all of the nasty barbs over the years aimed at Nance... he wasted little time getting into action on what he thought (or was advised) were worthwhile ideas.

Of course, the 1954-1/2 Panthers with the 1955 cathedral tail lights were only basically cosmetic changes. The engines were still non-supercharged straight 8s. The exhaust was routed out of one port of the dual exhaust ports on the rear bumper. The other was a dummy outlet. This information and more was also covered 30 years ago in the original Spring, 1984 issue of The Packard Cormorant magazine history of the Packard Panthers written by Leon Dixon.

The only functional/engineering changes with these cars that were obvious was the addition of a hood scoop and other changes intended to assist in cooling since these cars were quickly discovered to have a tendency to overheat during normal driving-which these latter two Panthers experienced most. Both also had "wind wings" originally added to the A-pillar with the Mitchell version eventually having an actual quarter/vent style window added. But no V8.

Posted on: 2014/8/2 12:50
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