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What next? Starter?
#1
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VancouverCanuck
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So we found TDC and put the distributor wires in the right order. The battery is good. Brand new and holds a charge overnight. New points, plugs and condenser and spark plug wires. The coil was also replaced. What seems to happen is the warning lights come on (as they should) when the key is in the start position and the headlights work so there is some power. When we try to start the car, the engine turns very slowly and then the power dies. The battery still registers as having charge. Any ideas?

Posted on: 2014/9/21 0:08
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Re: What next? Starter?
#2
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Wesley Boyer
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How about the battery cables? I thought I had a bad starter until I changed out my battery cables. Just because the lights work just means the battery is connected not how much current it can handle. Also check for good connections from your battery to the starter and ground.
Wes

Posted on: 2014/9/21 7:42
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Re: What next? Starter?
#3
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David Grubbs
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It's usually easier to make your own battery cables rather than try to find a correct one. Go to a good Napa store, or a welding supply store and purchase the appropriate length of 00 (called double ought) cable and the correct end connectors. The ones I like to use are preloaded with flux and solder. You clamp the connector in a vise, cut back a bit of insulation so that the cable fits completely into the connector, then put it together and apply heat from a torch (propane or MAPP gas, not the English version, i.e. a flashlight!), and you have a nice heavy duty cable. On the ground, you can use a flat braided one if you can find the correct length. If not, use the double ought cable. On the prewar cars that used the frame as a ground, I like to add an additional ground from the frame to the engine as well. Just be sure to clean the paint, grease etc away from the grounding area, and use a star washer to bite into the metal. Bet you dinner that this cures your problem. But if it doesn't, pull the starter and take it to a local generator/starter repair shop and have it tested. It may be marginal - this happens sometimes after 60-70 years.....It's a relatively easy task for a good shop to bring the starter back up to snuff with new brushes and maybe bushings.

Posted on: 2014/9/21 8:07
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Re: What next? Starter?
#4
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Fish'n Jim
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Point of Safety - check everything before you energize any circuits. Adding larger supply cables to an unknown issue invites bigger consequences.
Yeah, it's low voltage but high amperage and that's what kills you / does damage. Popping fuses and sparking is not considered good electrical troubleshooting and in some electrical classifications will cause major harm.
First check everything is properly connected and in good condition per wiring diagram. With a meter, check for continuity and amp draw. This may require removal and sending to a shop if not equipped. After all the circuits have been "rung out" then energize the system. You can disconnect non essentials just make sure they're taped off / out of harm.
Before you continue, I'd check the voltage regulator(VR) and generator circuit.
The lights are on a separate circuit and don't directly impact the starter circuit.
What I'm thinking is the VR senses the voltage drop from the starter draw and closes, as normal, but opens to a fault. Either the generator, wires, or the VR could contain the fault. This was held out in some systems until the motor started, but I don't recall seeing that in the Packard wiring diagram.

Posted on: 2014/9/21 20:43
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Re: What next? Starter?
#5
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jfrom@kanter
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Check voltage along the curcuit under load.

Could have bad mechanical connection- to frame, battery post etc

Bad solder joint

Bad solenoid

Bad battery with voltage and no amperage ( Load Test The Battery)

James

Posted on: 2014/9/22 7:45
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Re: What next? Starter?
#6
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VancouverCanuck
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We used a multimeter to check starter last night. Even before trying to crank it it was losing power. So, just turning the key to the on position drained it. Battery is good. It makes it very hard to test it. The idea of checking all electrical is a bit daunting.

Posted on: 2014/9/22 8:36
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Re: What next? Starter?
#7
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Owen_Dyneto
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So, just turning the key to the on position drained it.

Sorry for not following this thread in detail so I may be missing some details, but what you observe with the key on is entirely normal assuming the engine stopped in a position with the points closed - it's the current drain from powering the ignition coil, typically about 4 amps. Pull the feed to the coil and check again - if there is still a current drain it's either something energized like a glove box or trunk light or clock, or if a large drain then a short circuit.

Posted on: 2014/9/22 8:48
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Re: What next? Starter?
#8
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Jim McDermaid
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Not sure what car you have But:

You could measure the voltage at the terminals on the starter. That would be the car chassis ground and the output of the starter relay.

Using a piece of wire with a couple of alligator clips you can activate the relay and check the voltage with a decent meter.

Expect this to crank the engine so watch the rotating parts.

It shouldn't drop below 5.5 volts with the starter under load.

This would tell you if your cables are good and the connections between the battery and the frame and the engine are good.

If this is a 6 Volt car it needs heavy battery cables and I don't think anybody still sells ready-made.

If the battery cables are too light it may crank slowly and the voltage drop may be too great to fire the coil.

My car has the feed to the ignition switch connected to the starter relay on the same post the battery cable lands.

Jim

Posted on: 2014/9/22 19:22
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Re: What next? Starter?
#9
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VancouverCanuck
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We checked the cables, battery, fuel pump and starter...all good. Cables are large ones...I showed hubbie this post and that's what we have. Car battery has charge but as soon as we try to start the car, engine turns slowly but won't crank and dies. Battery still has 6 volts power. We repaired a couple of wires. We cleaned and sanded all connections. Are there any fuses or anything else anyone can think of? Remember I'm new at this and just helping my hubbie. Thanks. 😃. We just want her to start. 😞. I should mention we have tried to jump off of a 12 volt and it turns a bit faster but then dies...still dead slow though.

Posted on: 2014/10/4 21:07
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Re: What next? Starter?
#10
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Don Shields
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I've been following this thread with increasing interest as it's become so mystifying. As far as "anything else anyone can think of" have you tried turning the engine over by hand? There could be some tight bearings that are overloading the starter. If the engine can be turned over completely several times relatively easily by hand, I would then pull the starter back enough so the pinion won't engage the flywheel or contact anything else and then energize the starter motor. It should spin rapidly and easily as it has no load on it. If it balks with no load then you know the problem is in the starter motor.

Posted on: 2014/10/4 22:56
Don Shields
1933 Eight Model 1002 Seven Passenger Sedan
1954 Convertible
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