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23 series battery gauge problem
#1
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Deskdriver
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I'm having some problems with my 23 series. Was working on the right front parking light as it is not working. Bulb checks okay. I started from the light socket and work backwards looking for a short, nothing found. Lots of old wires with tape on them. I know better that disturbing them.

Then I slide under the dash to check if the indicator wires maybe shorting on the column. I had to move this group of wires an inch or so for inspection. Then, I hear this clicking sound like the turn indicator is on. Looking at the battery gauge, the needle goes to discharge and then back to center with a "Ticking" sound. The ignition is not on!

I use the quick disconnect on the battery to stop the "Ticking". Any ideas as to the cause?

I need to take the car in to CHP for VIN (I know there isn't one, but still someone wants to see some numbers) inspection before I can get it registered. During the inspection they usually check out all the lighting and such.

Thank you for your time. I am learning.
B.
ps never did get the turn signals working. Horn is not working either.

Posted on: 2014/9/22 10:57
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#2
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HH56
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If the needle was moving a fair amount to the discharge side it sounds as if a short is causing a circuit breaker to energize and as it cools, close again repeating the cycle. Typically all Packard CBs work in that fashion until the short is cleared or the breaker finally fails. There should be one and possibly two small rectangular boxes with two stud terminals mounted to the back of instrument cluster and another on the headlight switch. If you were moving things around, even if you were careful there is a good possibility something has shorted. If no switches were on chances are the problem is in the courtesy light or body feed circuit since that is active all the time. In the old wiring there have been instances where insulation shrank or cracked allowing the center conductor to touch the metal shell of lamp sockets or shorting under cable clamps when the wire was bent and insulation broke off.

If the needle was only moving a tiny bit then depending on how the turn signal feed was wired to the ign sw or voltage feed, it is possible that circuit is active even if ign switch is off.

On the non working signal lamp, so many intermittent or non working problems with turn signals can be traced to a poor ground. It might be worthwhile to remove the lamp assy, clean off a spot and either ensure nothing but pristine metal is present on the mounting stud/screw areas or possibly even run a small jumper wire to ground. The socket should also be examined. If the fiber center has gotten wet over the years and deformed, it is possible it can depress or bulge out resulting in a bad connection to one of the bulb contacts.

There is also a slim possibility the socket has worn or is large enough to allow the wrong bulb to be installed or one to be inserted incorrectly. I would check the bulb/socket carefully to ensure that when the bulb is inserted and turned to lock, both pins are actually in their slots and the contact buttons line up with the wires. There have been some instances where sockets were worn or new bulbs had the pins smaller or offset slightly from what the old requirements were that things did not line up.

On the horn, a couple of possibilities. There should be a direct feed from the Bat connection on solenoid so verify you have the voltage at B at the relay. If voltage present then start by checking the horn ring and wiring. You can check by touching a jumper between S on the relay and ground. If it blows then concentrate on the wire from relay up thru center of steering shaft and ring contacts. If the horn doesn't blow, check the relay by touching a decent sized jumper from B to H and see if the horn blows. If they don't sound then wire, horns or ground is suspect.

Posted on: 2014/9/22 11:29
Howard
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#3
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Deskdriver
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Thanks Howard! You gave me a lot to work with.
B.

Posted on: 2014/9/23 20:19
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#4
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Deskdriver
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Still having problems with the electrical. I am wondering if I removed the leads off the GA side of the ignition switch, reconnected the battery and tested each line with a test light if that would show the short on that circuit?

Would this stop the ammeter circuit breaker from cycling from discharge back to neutral position?

Am I going to cause more damage?

Did find the right front parking light has a bad ground.

Other problems I found some bare wires in places and corrected those problems.

Haven't worked on the horn yet do to the ammeter problem.

Should mention that a previous owner(s)(I'm the 7th) painted the car and a lot of the wires that were not taped up are now green (a few blue/gray like the engine). There are some red plastic coated wire I think the last owner replaced to get the car running.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
B

Posted on: 2014/10/6 12:48
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#5
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HH56
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Removing the wires from the GA terminal may ultimately be required but since you said the ign switch was off when it happens then the GA and COIL terminals should be inactive. If there is another wire on the AM terminal of ign switch not sharing a lug or looks added that wire needs to be chased to see if there is a CB associated with it. The normal factory circuit breakers are in the same string which actually feeds the ign switch.

Battery voltage goes to ammeter first and out of ammeter to a wire which has splices going in 4 different directions -- 1 to ign sw, 1 to regulator, 1 to headlight sw which has a CB attached and another to the accessory or body CB which on a 23rd series should be mounted on instrument cluster center bottom. If there is another CB on inst cluster that feed needs to be determined.

The normal accessory breaker feeds the courtesy lights and brake lights as well as some small optional items which may have been added. Larger options such as radio, heater, etc may use the battery side of the breaker as a convenient feed point but generally have their own inline fuses.

The first place I would disconnect is the output of that accessory breaker at the lower middle of instrument cluster and see if the problem is gone. If yes that would mean chasing courtesy & brake lights etc which could get interesting since many of the wires are hidden under upholstery or carpet. If no then check the breaker on back of headlight switch to see if that is the one cycling and if anything has been added to it. Normally it only feeds the head, parking, instrument and tail lights and is not active unless the headlight sw is on but could have had accessories added.

Posted on: 2014/10/6 13:24
Howard
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#6
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Fish'n Jim
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If the ammeter is discharging then not, somethings pulsing, like the turn signal. With key off the charging system is cut off, so when it's on, it's pulling current//discahrging. Apparently a short other corrosion related issue might be there or faulty signal flasher. Check the dial frequency and see if it's about the turn signal time span. If not, it's something else.
I'm not a fan of screwing around with old wiring. The diagrams are on here, it's not that big a job to rewire the critical stuff, at least you know it'll work.
Test the horns first. Pull the lead wire off and hot jump each one. If they growl, they're probably OK, just clean them up. If no sound, they're shot. Good place for critters to hide stuff or water to sit. Then work back to the relay. The horn relays are readily available so I wouldn't screw around if it's rusty. I'll donate the one I'm not going to need, if necessary.

Posted on: 2014/10/6 20:27
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Re: 23 series battery gauge problem
#7
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Deskdriver
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Found the problem. Fish'n Jim was right.
Looked for shorts everywhere and taped many wires. I had left my flashlight on under the dash after taping some more wires. Then reconnecting the battery I watched the ammeter needle bounce back and forth. Then I saw the smoke in the flashlight beam. The drivers side courtesy light had electricians tape on it which was starting to melt. It was hot to the touch. I cut the wires and removed the socket / bulb. That was the problem. Good call.

My Dad said when I was growing up "Now for the smoke test" guess this where it came from.

Thanks guys for the help!!
B.

Posted on: 2014/10/8 11:16
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