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Noisy Lifters
#1
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Jim L. in OR
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I all,

Today I finally wrapped up a project that should have taken a weekend but took 3 months. That project was seeing if I couldn't quiet the hydraulic lifters in my '51 200 Deluxe. They were making so much noise that it sounded like I had a whole troupe of Spanish Dancers - complete with Castanets" under the hood.

Did the usual opening: Drain the radiator, remove the head and valve covers. The latter after putting the RF corner of the car on jack stands so I could remove the tire and the access panel. Dug out my trusty Valve Spring Compressor, plugged all the oil drains in the lifter chamber, removed all the keepers and then the valves, springs and finally the lifters placing each one in it's proper place in a lifter rack I made out of a length of 4X4. After that, it was disassemble them and blow them out with compressed air then, back in the rack. The next step was the leak-down test detailed in the FSM. I was delighted but puzzled to find that all but one of the lifters I could remove check out fine. The one that didn't I replaced with the best of the lifters I had harvested from one of my spare engines - along with the keepers.

The one lifter that I couldn't get out of the cam follower I decided to leave in place as from what I could gather from the forum really wasn't likely to do any damage. There was only one other abnormal situation. That was the lifter that had TOO MUCH ROOM in its cam follower. For that I just tried to find the lifter out of my stash that moved around the least and call it good. There is no way I was going to remove the cam for this given the little it's driven.

At last it was time to reverse the process and put the whole thing back together. Getting the valve spring keepers or locks installed was a real treat! I worked on the first one for 1 & 1/2 hours. Back to the relevant sections in the Forum where I found the "Grease Trick". I would be showing my age if I said a jingle from the old Brylcreme ads came back to me - "a little dab will do ya". By the end, I was getting those things in pretty fast. Maybe too fast.

After the valve train was all back together and the head was torqued down but before I installed the plugs, I decided to use the starter to spin the engine just to make sure everything stayed put that was supposed to. It did! Put the plugs back in, got cleaned up enough to get in the car and fired her up.

Sounded real good for the first 15 seconds or so.... Then it was making all sorts of noises I knew it shouldn't be making. So I shut her down, locked up the garage and went in and fixed a drink!

Two weeks later and I opened up the valve chamber again and I immediately saw what the problem was. One set of the keepers or locs I thought was firmly in place - wasn't. It had come loose and the result was the spring was just sitting there with the valve inside doing nothing. Out comes the valve spring compressor, bag with the spare valve lock or keepers inside and after re-plugging the drain, fished the two errant keepers out and after putting a dab of grease on my finger put two clean keepers on the the valve then lowered the spring and everything held. Took the plugs out and ran the starter - this time, a few more shots of cranking before I put it all back together and with everything crossed, tried it again.

SUCCESS ! ! ! And SILENT success as well. Well, not completely silent as I still had those two lifters - one too tight in the cam follower and the other too loose; but compared to the cacophony that was present before - what's a couple of soft clicks every so often.

So there it is. My first major Packard engine intervention. And it RUNS ! ! ! !

Posted on: 2014/10/21 0:48
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#2
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Ozstatman
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"My first major Packard engine intervention. And it RUNS ! ! ! !"

Posted on: 2014/10/21 1:21
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#3
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Jim L. in OR
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Thanks Mal!

Posted on: 2014/10/21 1:34
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#4
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Hans Ahlness
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good job, I bet the lack of extra sounds gives you a good feeling. this will likely be one of my winter projects too, so I might be nosing around for insights when that time comes!

Posted on: 2014/10/21 9:32
1952 Model 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
HA's 52 Grey Ghost

"The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#5
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Jim L. in OR
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Quote:

HA52 wrote:
good job, I bet the lack of extra sounds gives you a good feeling. this will likely be one of my winter projects too, so I might be nosing around for insights when that time comes!


Thank you HA52 - the lack of clatter is a good feeling and knowing that the little click that's left doesn't mean that the engine is getting ready to toss a rod all the way back to Grand Ave is a relief. I've been following your postings diligently as we seem to be going down the same path. I couldn't tell with any degree of certainty what was making the noise or really where even using a stethoscope. The thing than was most helpful was the picture that JD in KC posted of the leaking lifter. I had about three of them with one squirting a stream of oil that cleared the engine. That has stopped as well. It's a project that sounded daunting but really isn't. The main thing to remember is to plug the Oil Drains so those pesky keepers or locks don't escape to the crankcase. I had the benefit of a donor engine which was a good thing as even though I don't think I lost any, it saved time to have a few extras all cleaned and ready. Max Merritt has them (they call them Valve Keepers) for $3.00 a pair. If I had to do it over again, and I may depending on what I find in my "New" '51 Patrician, I might blow $9 for a backup.

See if you can take pictures of the valve chamber when the engine is running to isolate the bad lifters. You'll think that you will remember which one's needed attention but if you're anything like me - life will get in the way and by the time you get back to it, you'll be lucky if you remember which Valve Cover the're under.

I've been following your blog all along with special attention to your valve noise situation and more recently, your work on the body like "de-rusting" the body and the underside of the roof.

Anything I can do to help I'll be happy to do so.

Posted on: 2014/10/21 12:07
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#6
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Wesley Boyer
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Glad to hear it all worked out. I know this is a little late but I have a dentist mirror that I use to check the keepers after removing the valve compression tool. I figure I would only mention so if someone else is following this they will think about it, maybe.
Wes

Posted on: 2014/10/21 13:35
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#7
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Jim L. in OR
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That's a great idea! It would work perfectly too. I know there'll be others interested in using this mirror. As I said earlier, I have yet to discover what evil lurks in the heart of my '51 Patrician. If it turns out that lifter cleaning is needed on that, I will be getting one for sure.

Jim

Posted on: 2014/10/21 14:39
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#8
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steve-52/200
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Hi I need some advice ,I had my 327 rebuilt for the 52 touring sedan and bought hydrolic lifters for the kit .,very gradual process,the rebuild ,.6 over bore so the cylinders are noce and tight , now 2 yr later engine installed and lo and behold low compression ,=40# and on 3 cylinders ,none! ,i removed the covers on the side of the engine all of the valves are going up and down ,made sure the timing was on the correct stroke ,put a little break in oil in the cylinders ,spun the engine a few times ,still the same no compresssion on 3 cylinders and 40 on the rest .not enough for the engine to catch so im stalled .
stuck lifters? I think the engine may have had solid ones originally ,I think ( cant remember ) I got them from max merrit ,if not Kanter ,they sat waiting thier turn for the rebuild and then for the engine install
can I remove them withour taking the head off? i couldnt feel any bolts to loosen.looks like from your thread theres a spring to compress? does that let it be removd? sshould I put solids back in?big mystery!!

Posted on: 2014/11/11 9:24
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#9
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Owen_Dyneto
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Hard to know just where to begin on this. The cam grind is different with solid versus hydraulic lifters; if you originally had solids you should stick with solids. If it had hydraulics, did you remember to check the valve stem to lifter body clearance per the shop manual for the 0.030 to 0.070 clearance? Did you grind the valve faces and seats? Was the cylinder head retorqued after sitting so long before you finally started the engine? That's a must do.

No, you can not remove the hydraulic lifter assemblies without removing the cylinder head.

Posted on: 2014/11/11 10:16
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Re: Noisy Lifters
#10
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Wesley Boyer
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If you do a cylinder leak down test. This will tell you where most of the problems are.
Wes

Posted on: 2014/11/11 10:38
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