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120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
#1
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sanford mitchell
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take a look at this car from my friend overseas. He says it is a 120 Dietrich Victoria. I do know that dietrich made the convertible sedans ( at Murray) but ive never known them to produce the Victoria could it be a one off it definitely smacks of the Dietrich styling from the rear

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Posted on: 2015/1/30 20:20
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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sanford mitchell
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also the landau irons are on the inside of the convertible top

Posted on: 2015/1/30 20:21
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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sanford mitchell
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were any 120 Dietrich Victorias listed in brochures etc

Posted on: 2015/1/30 20:26
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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58L8134
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Hi Sanford

Here's the link to the prototype 120 convertible Victoria factory photo:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=11498&cid=40

I recall reading it's credited to LeBaron, not Dietrich, that two were built, one is still extant. The 120 convertible Victoria in the photo likely is a coachbuilt European body, that style being much more popular there in the pre-war years. What country is it in?

Just a gut-feeling, it looks like it could have started life as a factory convertible coupe, was modified later into its current configuration.

Steve

Posted on: 2015/1/31 15:44
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner. Thinking about my next Packard, want a Clipper Deluxe Eight, manual shift with overdrive.
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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Owen_Dyneto
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There were no factory-offered custom coachwork bodies for the "120" in 1936 and 1937; there were a couple of Rollston offerings in 1938 on the 1601 chassis but no victorias.

Due in part to lesser excise/road taxes and that it was a better fit on narrow European roads, the 120 chassis was quite popular with European coachbuilders. Convertible victorias on the smaller chassis were almost a speciality with Graber, and others by Franay and Kellner (France), Salmons (England), Norrmalms (Sweden) and other coachbuilders were built and photo records of some of them survive.

In the US Derham did many conversions at customer's request to various body styles in the late 30s on the Packard junior chassis, a lesser number by LeBaron are known to have been built. The late Ed Hermann had a 1936 "120" Victoria by LeBaron, picture attached.

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Posted on: 2015/1/31 17:10
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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flackmaster
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Definitely an interesting car, and I for one am looking forward to more information.
Just one hair to split in a discussion rather than debate format, regarding "no factory-offered custom coachwork bodies for the "120" in 1936 and 1937..." - how do the 120 convertible sedans, designated as Dietrich, with bodies not built by Packard not classify as custom coachwork?

Posted on: 2015/1/31 17:41
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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58L8134
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Hi flackmaster

".....how do the 120 convertible sedans, designated as Dietrich, with bodies not built by Packard not classify as custom coachwork?"

Man, there's a touchy question in some circles! Owners want their car recognized by CCCA as such, others are dead set against it. Its the stuff of heated arguments. The convertible sedan bodies all were built by Murray whatever the series. But the consensus is that a box of "Dietrich" coachbuilder tags was left on the shelf, so why not attach them to the new 120 convertible sedan bodies to give them a bit more cache in the showroom.

By this time, Ray Dietrich was years out of his eponymous company, being frustrated by Chrysler body engineering at every turn when he tried to give their cars even a modicum of stylishness..... To say that company wasted the talents of a great designer is to make massive understatement!

Steve

PS: Thanks Owen for posting the photo of the late Ed Hermann's 120 LeBaron convertible Victoria, its a real gem. Makes one wish they had included that style at least for 1937.

Posted on: 2015/2/1 9:29
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner. Thinking about my next Packard, want a Clipper Deluxe Eight, manual shift with overdrive.
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Re: 120 Dietrich body Victoria 1937
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flackmaster
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I am not trying to stir the pot to boiling, its just that I don't understand. There are plenty of Post-37 120 Darrins and Rollsons, which the CCCA accepts, whereas the 36-37 120 Dietrich's, if I am not mistaken, and I would hope to be corrected, are not accepted by the CCCA, despite accepting all other 36-37 Packard Dietrich's (probably simply because they otherwise Senior cars..).
Not sure about the Ed Hermann car, I've seen that car, but never asked the CCCA question. There are even Graber's on the 115C chassis...

The bodies were not built by Packard, in fact, there is a Packard factory memo concerning further unavailability of the 120 Conv.Sedan bodies by spring of 37...
I'd like to think it wasn't just a matter of a box of leftover tags...

Were these cars "individual customs", NO, I accept that, but neither were many other CCCA cars accepted as Classics. YES, I am a CCCA member, and NO, I have not requested any further explanation from the committee. One day I may, but for now, I would appreciate additional understanding.

Posted on: 2015/2/1 12:02
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