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(1) 2 »

Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#1
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Packard 1948
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I am working on my dad's engine and it certainly needs a valve job because the exhaust valves are burned.

While the engine is apart we are hoping to also do a re-hone of the cylinders and a re-ring of the pistons.

Since I am "Planning for the worse and hoping for the best" it is good to come up with some contingency plans...just in case.

If there is excessive wear in the cylinders we will need to go a .010/ .030 overbore and new pistons.

Are new camshafts available? Hopefully it will not need it but we are holding our breath until the inspection. What IF the cam is worn? Is there a source for a new cam? It does have solid lifters. I noticed some Packard engines of this vintage have hydraulic lifters so the question is ...is it possible to convert to hydraulic lifters? Other than the lack of need to adjust the lifters is there a major advantage to hydraulic lifters?

Do these engines have a timing chain or timing gears? If the it has gears then my assumption is that IF the gears do not look worn then no need to replace it. If it is a timing chain then that would have to get replaced.

What is the most reliable source for internal engine components? I am NOT a big fan of Kanter as I have had bad luck with other make cars and their products.

Any suggestions on what to do/ look for during this "Engine Freshen Up" would be greatly appreciated!!!

THANKS!!!

Bill

Posted on: 2015/3/25 1:44
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#2
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Owen_Dyneto
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Unless the engine has had really poor storage, been abused or had an exceptionally hard life chances are you won't need a new camshaft though a polishing might be in order. A regrind is an option on a worn cam and I suppose you might be able to find a new one but I doubt they are plentiful.

Cam timing is by timing chain and they are available from the usual major Packard vendors, as well as Egge.

I've always had complete satisfaction with engine parts bought from Kanter Auto, but you could also consider Egge as a prime source, Max Merritt as well. Some of these parts may well come from the same original source regardless of which vendor you buy them from.

You didn't say which 1948 Packard model you have so I can't comment on the lifter type; if the engine is a "356" (Custom 8) you have hydraulics, you can tell easily enough by just removing the valve cover and looking at them. Engine #s for the Custom 8 would be in the 6XXXXX range.

Posted on: 2015/3/25 7:08
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#3
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PackardV8
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Quote:
" Naturally if there is
excessive wear in the cylinders we will
need to go the .030 overbore and new
pistons."


How do u know .030 overbore??? Maybe .010 or .020 overbore will be enuf.

Posted on: 2015/3/25 9:27
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#4
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Rusty O\'Toole
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Flathead engines are easy on camshafts and valve lifters due to the light weight of the valve train, and light valve springs. Cams and lifters seldom wear unless maintenance is neglected over high mileage.

Hydraulic lifters not necessary. I would prefer solids as they are trouble free and reliable, and only need adjusting every 20,000 or 30,000 miles if that. I have noticed that solid lifter engines are just as quiet as hydraulics, and they stay that way for the life of the engine if adjusted periodically. Hydraulics always get noisy eventually, and can easily get stuck on an engine that is out of commission for long periods. An old solid lifter engine, properly maintained, is quieter than an old hydraulic lifter engine.

Only if adjustments are never done, does the solid lifter engine get noisy.

Cylinder wear up to .007 it is ok to hone and put in new rings. There used to be special rings that would work with cylinders worn .010 or larger but I don't think they are available anymore.

Posted on: 2015/3/31 15:52
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#5
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Packard 1948
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Hi Packard Cyber Friends!!!

THANKS AGAIN!!! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you...sometimes "work happens". This forum is REALLY helpful!!!

Can you PLEASE give some advice/tips on the following for our "engine spa treatment"???

ENGINE:
The engine serial number is G4246XXXX

Looking at the Engine Serial Number reference chart on this website (SUPER WEBSITE BTW) this is what we are working with:

-the engine a "1948 22 Series" (Whatever that means)

-327 CID, 145 HP, Super Eight

-L head ("L or M...whatever it takes" Mr. Mom movie reference)

-5 bearing, solid lifters

-Casting number: 389803 11-17-48


CAM and LIFTERS:
The machinist removed the cam and the cam is good!!! I assume it needs a polish.

One lifter is bad however he has another lifter "laying around the shop" he can mill down to fit the bore.


VALVES and SEATS:
A couple of exhaust valves are burned. Naturally it would be best to replace all the exhaust valves with stainless valves since they are out and get the seats ground and cleaned up.

The intake valves look good. My assumption is that it is best to grind the intake valves and seats since it is apart.

Since Flat Heads are new to me, I Ass-U-Me that the engine internals need to be removed so as to keep the valve seat grinding debris away and then a full clean up of the engine block will be needed before the internals are re-installed???


HEAD and BLOCK:
The head is not cracked however my guess is that it should be resurfaced to ensure a sealed head gasket fit.

Does the block deck NEED to be resurfaced??? Removing and reinstalling all of the studs will be the time cost on that so the question is ...does it REALLY need to be done or a clean up will suffice?


CYLINDER and PISTONS/RINGS:
Since the head is now off, the machinist "finger nailed" the cylinders and he swagged that the cylinders were "Ten Thousands" over bore. When he removes the pistons he will bore mic it out to be sure. Would a re-hone of the cylinders and new rings be sufficient or are we going to need a ten thousands over boar and pistons?


CRANKSHAFT/BEARINGS:
When he removes the crank he can determine IF the crank journals are clean. If they are NOT scored then my guess is that the OEM bearings can be reused in their original positions - OR- would a crank journal polish and new standard sized bearings be needed -OR- would a ten thousands crank journal regrind and ten thousands oversized bearing be OK?

DISTRIBUTER:
The distributor was good and I left the cap and wires installed so I can get them back on with no grief. Someone said the distributor needs to be "indexed". What does that mean?

CARBURETOR:
The carburetor worked fine so I sealed it up in a plastic bag and plan to simply reinstall it.

EXHAUST MANIFOLDS:
My guess is that the exhaust manifolds will simply need to be reinstalled. They were not cracked nor leaking before.

OIL PUMP:
Should I disassemble the oil pump and inspect it or should I simply clean it up and reinstall?

WHAT ELSE???

Can you think of anything else I am not thinking of?

THANKS SO MUCH GUYS!!!

Posted on: 2015/3/31 18:15
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#6
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HH56
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the engine a "1948 22 Series" (Whatever that means)

Others can better address your mechanical questions but the question on engine & serial # is that Packard went by series rather than model years until 1954. A series could span more than one model year. The 46-47 cars were the 21st series. In your case the 1948 cars were introduced in late 47 as the 22nd series and continued virtually unchanged until mid 1949 when the 23rd series was introduced. That made 49 model year cars span two series with slightly different looks and mechanicals & causes a bit of confusion. To add even more confusion, many of the 48 year 22nd series cars did not sell and since they were identical to the 49 22nd series, were renumbered by the factory as 1949 models. That leads to cars with an early 48 motor number and casting date to be found sold and registered as a 1949 model. 24th series cars were the 1951 models and so it went until they abruptly changed series number to match the model year in 1954. With new model introduction it jumped from the 1953 26th series to the 1954 54th series. Knowing the series is important when looking thru the parts books. Most mechanical parts are listed by the chassis number which starts with series numerals as to the various models they fit -- 2201, 2203, 2206, etc. Body parts are typically listed by the four numerals on the patent plate which identifies the various body types 2250, 2251, 2270 etc

If you want to learn more than you ever wanted to know about your dads car I highly recommend the book on the 22 and 23 series cars "Packard-1948 to 1950" written by Bob Neal. It is available from Dwight Heinmuller.http://www.packardparts.org/products/books

Posted on: 2015/3/31 18:30
Howard
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#7
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PackardV8
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If no evidence of head gasket leakage then there is absolutelu no reason to mill the head nor deck the block.

Posted on: 2015/3/31 19:22
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#8
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Packard 1948
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I know you all have been waiting with bated breath for the progress report.

It looks like the cylinders were .020 worn out so a .030 overbore is in the works. Two exhaust valves were burned so new exhaust valves are in the plan.

Still waiting on the inspection of the cam and crank journals.

Posted on: 2015/4/5 11:23
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#9
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Fish'n Jim
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I would investigate and correct the reason for the burned valves.
That often indicates running a lean condition for long periods going from memory. I'll probably be corrected rightly or wrongly by the others but I'm used to it. The L8 literature showed, I think two different materials for the inlet and exhaust valves. But that was also for leaded gas in the day to "lube" the valves. (I'm not a believer in that) You may want to upgrade all fuel system parts for today's crazy and future fuels.
We tend to assume everything was untouched/original after that long but that's rarely the case.

Posted on: 2015/4/8 11:51
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Re: Engine "Freshen Up" Questions???
#10
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Packard 1948
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>I'll probably be corrected rightly or wrongly by the others but I'm used to it.

That is my life in general...not just on the Packard forum.

Good info...I will certainly check out the spark plugs after the break in to see how the mixture is burning during cruise. Yes the newest of the newer of the new fuel is much different than the Ethel. First they got rid of the lead, then they began to oxygenate the fuel, and here in California they are changing the blends of the fuel based on seasons.

My course of action will be to not screw with the distributor or carb until after the break in because "If it aint broke...dont fix it".

My dad did install a remote fuel pump to prim the system after the car has sat for a long period of time. I have had a number of various makes and designs of carburetor engines (small block, slant six, strait six, big block, Mopar, Cadillac, and this Packard and especially on the cars with the carb mounted directly on top of the engine is the worst, I could look into the carb and just see the fuel peculating out of the jets as the heat from the engine boils the fuel and those engines always had flooded starts if they sat for 10 minutes after driving

Bill

Posted on: 2015/4/8 12:34
Bill,

Dedicated to keeping the man who owns one on the road!!!
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