Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I've removed the damper and the timing cover from the 48 356. Timing chain has some slop. Maybe it's fine, maybe not: I'm no expert. See the video below and advise your thoughts?

Second: is it advisable to keep the cam gear installed on the end and use the gear as a 'handle' of sorts to help pull the camshaft out, once I remove the retaining bolts and retainer behind it? It's a pretty long cam... I can see there's a tanged 'washer' behind the retaining nut, with one tang bent against one flat side of the nut so as to make it impossible to remove the nut without bending it back. Tang is pretty resistant to bending thus far, but I paused because I realized perhaps it would be better to leave the gear in place for now...thoughts?

Third and last: I should be able to remove the cam without compressing any of the valve springs, correct? Or will the valve stems/springs and hydraulic lifters/followers get in the way of removal?

Thanks all.

Cheers

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid153.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs219%2Fcoliseumltd%2F1948%2520Packard%2520Custom%2520Eight%2520Club%2520Sedan%2FLos%2520Angeles%2FEngine%2520Bay%2FIMG_2382_zpspnfbdmiy.mp4&title=">

That is quite a lot of play in the timing chain and replacement would be recommended. You would also need to check wear in the sprockets as they tend to develop groves where the chain "teeth" ride.

The cam gear needs to come off in order to remove the chain but could be replaced to help with pulling the camshaft. The tang on the nut retainer is soft steel and you just need to behind it with a thin wedge to start it bending for removal.

It would be almost impossible to remove the camshaft without first removing the valves and valve springs as the valve spring tension would tend to press the lower end of the tappets against the cam lobes making it hard to move the cam forward and then blocking movement as the cam moved ahead enough for the tappets to drop behind the cam lobes.

I have the below valve spring compressor:

http://www.sears.com/kd-tools-universal-overhead-valve-spring-compressor/p-00994097000P

But I suspect I need one like this...

http://www.sears.com/kd-tools-valve-spring-compressor/p-00999884000P

Then by your description (since I'm not removing the head), I would remove the valve springs, and retainers/clips so the valve stems would 'hang there' while I remove the lifters one by one as I'm able to pull the camshaft forward, correct?

You cannot remove the valve springs, or the hydraulic lifters without removing the head. I used old fashioned wooden clothespins to hold the cam followers in place while removing the cam.

Here's the valve spring compressor I used:

Do the hydraulic lifters remove out the top of their bores, but the tappet bodies remove through the bottom?

Your clothespin trick is a good idea! I will borrow that.

Why can't the valve springs be removed without taking the head off? I understand the head has to come off if you want to remove the valves completely. It seems like you could remove the springs/retainers so as to allow you to move the valves freely up and down in their guides with your fingers. I would hope that holding the valve by the stem in the extreme 'open' position would give you enough clearance to remove the hydraulic lifter assembly. Not the case?

I'm trying to get the cam out to address the broken tappets. Next steps were going to be remove the nut on the cam to remove the cam gear, then remove the cam retainer, then fix the lifters in their 'up' position as best as I could while gently pulling the cam out.

Am I missing a step(s)?

Yes, hydraulic units out from the top, the lifter bodies (cam followers) out from the bottom.

There isn't enough clearance to get the springs out from around the valve stems without pulling the valves. This precludes removing the hydraulic lifters from the top. I don't know what would happen if you used the spring compressor and removed all the keepers with the head still in place. I suppose you could then manually push all the valves into the open position and raise all sixteen cam followers. Maybe you could then pull the cam but I think it would be difficult. Maybe someone else has done it that way and can chime in.

Thanks JD. It's clear now I didn't think this through enough. You're absolutely right. Can't remove the valves, can't remove the springs. Trying to keep all the valves in their extreme 'open' position and also have to deal with the springs being in the way? Nuts! This is turning into quite the operation. Any chance you can pull the head and reinstall it without resurfacing anything??

Following this chain of thought though...you remove the head, the valve keepers, valves and springs. Great, so now you have plenty of room to pull the hydraulic lifter assemblies out through the top of their bores. Leaving the tappets to come out through the bottom. Don't you still have to deal with the tappets getting in the way as you pull the cam out? Or is there a part of the tappet body that actually extends up in their bore enough that you can clothespin them in the 'up' position?

I ask because last I had the valve access plates off, I didn't observe any part of the 16 tappet bodies sticking up far enough to 'hook' them...

There is enough of the tappet (cam follower) extending up to stick a clothespin on (about 1/2 inch). What you are possibly assuming is all part of the hydraulic lifter is probably the top part of the cam follower.

Evan, could I suggest that you find someone in your area to help you. It sounds like you have some knowledge of using tools but there are a lot of little things and tricks that are only learned from working with other people. Sometimes a little problem can be turned into a major throw yours hands up "why did I ever do that" monument. I'm just saying because I often find myself not knowing which way to turn without help.
With that said make sure you label everything keep all valves and parts reference to the cylinder they came from, also note how they come out. I have small plastic boxes that I use for each cylinder. Remember that each valve has has two keepers, collar, a valve spring and a washer that the valve spring rides on, so that's 16 each. And next are the Hyd. lifts, they have two parts each and HAVE to be kept together. And finally you need to find out why your Flat Tappets broke or they will break again. Maybe the previous owner worked on the engine and used the wrong springs, or valves were not cut to the correct length. I don't know I'm only throwing guesses out there.
Well Good Luck!
Wes

Here's an example of an open valve in a 356 with the Tappet/Cam Follower top visible.

Attach file:

---

  (101.36 KB)