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1955 Caribbean original engine ?
#1
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Packard0
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How important is it to have the original engine as opposed to a correct 352 engine from the same year? Also, what is a high estimate on one of these engine rebuilds?
Thanks

Posted on: 2015/5/29 21:58
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
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Mike Grimes
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As with the value of any 1955 Caribbean, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". There are several Caribbean's with engines installed that do not match the production number on the dataplate. There is a least one Caribbean that has a Clipper engine installed. There are several that have non-serialized engines that were probably factory replacements of warranty claims or other problems along the way. So for some people, a matching engine is a prerequisite for a high dollar Caribbean. For others, a beautiful and reliable driver is all that matters. So once again, the valve of any Packard is established each time the cash changes hands. Good luck.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 0:20
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
#3
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ewrecks
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I would echo the comments by Magnolia. What you want to accomplish with your project will determine the ultimate cost. If you have a complete interior a quality upholstery shop can work from that material or photos on this site or others to create a factory quality interior. It will not be cheap.
Likewise, a matching number engine would be something to hope for in a show car but the cost of taking a car to Pebble Beach quality will probably exceed the current value of the car....unless you do much of the work yourself.
Jack Vines who post frequently on this site has offered completely restored 352 engines for less than what I paid to have mine rebuilt by a friend who runs a local rebuild shop. The accessories- particularly the dual quads and batwing with proper linkage are now running more than the cost for an engine.
There are no real restoration or judging guidelines out there for the Caribbean and this site will be your best source for getting the car back together.
I am at the tail end of getting a basket case back,on the road and hope that you enjoy the process. These are not cars that anyone should hope to restore and retire on the profits.....but they are amazing cars.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 0:43
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
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Mike T
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I also agree with the above. People who collect those Packards do so because they have more of an appreciation for the styling and history of the brand. They think about their cars a bit differently than the those who are ONLY worried about matching numbers and market values.

I have a brother and best friend who are into GTOs. Talk about a numbers game. In the muscle car world matching numbers, production runs, OEM/NOS parts are everything! The market and the media (big number auctions) feed that frenzy. Plus it helps spot the fakes/clones that some people try to sell as big $$$ originals.

Packard guys want authenticity and want attention to detail, but build a great car and it will be appreciated just the same.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 10:07
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
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Jack Vines
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FWIW, one of our members here is a professional restorer, completing a Caribbean for a customer. The original engine block was in very poor condition. He felt it so important to have the original number engine, he chose to have a cylinder sleeve installed to be able to reuse the OEM block.

If the OEM engine block is available and not damaged or rusty, there's usually no cost difference in rebuilding that versus a replacement.

So, bottom line, if the original is available, definitely rebuild that.

jack vines

Posted on: 2015/5/30 10:37
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
#6
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HH56
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Another agree here. It is nice to have the original engine but with the way things were being done after Packards demise who is to say it is not a dealer installed engine -- and it is the right size for the car. There is a Stude bulletin notifying dealers there were a number of new 352 engines available and even suggesting dealers could save the customer money and make a sale if a new engine was needed by replacing any 56 374 engines with one of the 352s. That kind of indicates how concerned with matching numbers the official policy was. The dealer might have had a wrecked car or sourced the engine to save the customer (or himself) even more money.

It is like the 55-6 AC. With the number of ARA trunk units installed and being called factory it begs the question of what is factory -- the in dash unit that I would call factory or the Packard sanctioned dealer installed trunk unit sold with the car new so the owner would very likely have considered it factory.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 10:45
Howard
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
#7
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55clipper
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My 55 Caribbean has a 56 Clipper engine. 56 Clipper is 352 as is the 55 Caribbean. I believe the 56 is a better engine. I believe when I sell the car it will take a hit because of this but have no idea of how much of a hit. It also has manual windows.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 12:03
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Re: 1955 Caribbean original engine ?
#8
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Leeedy
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RE: changing a Caribbean engine... For the engine? Rebuild what you have. Anybody can do engine swaps, but the car deserves to keep its engine. Having the original engine in a car and keeping everything original and unmolested, just repaired is impressive-especially in a Caribbean. Oh... and to take this example to the extreme, look at the 1954 on eBay with the modern MoPar small-block V-8 shoved in there. Ohhhh that's gonna take a lotta wringing of hands (and a pile of parts and re-wiring) to bring that one back. And despite being a rare car and interesting price, nobody's jumped on it. For good reason.

RE: factory air.... For V-8 Packards, factory air is factory air is factory air. And that means as in "not in the trunk."

Any reference to ARA units and trunk-installed air conditioning that say "factory" are just somebody doing modern-day-dream-revisionism. Nobody stuck trunk units in these cars at the factory-no matter what people selling them today may say. Likewise for thingies hung under the instrument panel. Didn't happen at the factory. And no matter what badly-written books may say. Packard designed one factory air system for 1955-56 and it was intended to be integral with the car and through the instrument panel. Never in the trunk for 1955-56.

The dealer books say so. The internal marketing papers say so. The shop manuals say so. The salesman's data books say so. And my memories of these cars when new says so. Any unit stuck in the trunk-no matter who put it there-is an aftermarket, non-factory-approved brand-X accessory. Packard was very, very clear about this. Calling it "factory air" today does not make it "factory air"...

Dealers such as Earle C. Anthony sold a number of things on the cars new that were not "factory installed." But that did not make these accessories/systems/units "factory." Case in point: ECA sold GM Autronic Eye automatic headlight dimmers on some V-8 Packards. ECA also sold different oil filtration systems on some of these cars. These oil systems were made by "Luber-Finer" Company and were very different from the AC oil filtration system normally installed at the factory. But again, these systems were not "factory"... they were dealer-installed aftermarket accessories.

In addition, Packard V-8 factory air unit systems ('through-the-dash") were also made available to dealers as a dealer-installed package. Yes, it could be done and was indeed done. ANd Yessss, there IS a slight difference... but it didn't go in the trunk and was not "hung under the dash"...

But dealers could make MORE dough and faster off of an installation of an aftermarket A/C unit (ARA or anyone else's) sending the car down the street. It was a matter of making the sale and getting the car out of the door while still giving the customer what they said they wanted. So they did. My Four Hundred came to me with a Chrysler "AirTemp" A/C unit in the trunk and people have tried to call that, "factory air" ...it isn't. A universal drop-in a/c system or anybody's A/C unit shoved in the trunk just doesn't qualify as "factory air" for a Packard V-8. It doesn't cut it. But these days when nearly everything is getting morphed, people make up and say whatever they want. Because those who were around when the cars were new are few and far between now, it becomes gospel. That wasn't the way it was when these cars were new. Factory air was factory air.

Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Another agree here. It is nice to have the original engine but with the way things were being done after Packards demise who is to say it is not a dealer installed engine -- and it is the right size for the car. There is a Stude bulletin notifying dealers there were a number of new 352 engines available and even suggesting dealers could save the customer money and make a sale if a new engine was needed by replacing any 56 374 engines with one of the 352s. That kind of indicates how concerned with matching numbers the official policy was. The dealer might have had a wrecked car or sourced the engine to save the customer (or himself) even more money.

It is like the 55-6 AC. With the number of ARA trunk units installed and being called factory it begs the question of what is factory -- the in dash unit that I would call factory or the Packard sanctioned dealer installed trunk unit sold with the car new so the owner would very likely have considered it factory.

Posted on: 2015/5/30 22:40
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