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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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bkazmer
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Your MB comment brings to mind another what if.

Packard and MB had a partnership in the fifties. What if that had continued - would Packard today be like Bentley or Rolls-Royce, a more traditional face on a German luxury platform?

Posted on: 2015/8/31 12:42
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Steve203
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Packard and MB had a partnership in the fifties. What if that had continued -

iirc, the M-B marketing arrangement was brought in by C-W while they were the intermediary in the S-P bailout in early 56. Too late to save Packard.

M-B has, to my knowledge, always enjoyed a premium reputation in the US. While I remember seeing their diesels around in the late 60s, I do not ever recall seeing M-B taxis here.

There is probably a difference in what people in the US expect from a premium brand, and what Europeans expect. European premium cars are differentiated by engineering sophistication, while US luxury cars are bigger and flashier, but engineered little or no better than run of the mill sedans.

Posted on: 2015/8/31 15:29
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Tim Cole
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I remember a dyed in the wool Caddy guy who bought a low mileage original 36 Packard Eight Town Car. Once he drove it he couldn't believe how good it was.
A low mileage 120 is also a dream, although not as good an Eight. Packard really did a good job with the junior cars. And they utilized the idle factory space caused by the depression. The problem was they didn't follow through with the program. Maybe they couldn't afford to. I haven't looked at the financials other than to see that retained earnings didn't increase one lick between 1929 and 1942.

When I look at literature of the day it is clear people loved the Chevrolet. I've driven those old Chevy's and they are nice cars for the money. And the flathead Ford is surprisingly fast for what it has under the hood. For Packard the issue was how to get more people into their cars. If they kept Gilman they would have done better.

Posted on: 2015/8/31 17:55
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Mahoning63
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Too bad no American luxury car maker in the Sixties and Seventies attempted to bridge the gap between German functional and American comfort/convenience. The '61 Continental and '75 Seville probably got closest but neither hit the sweet spot that everyone has more or less headed towards.

Steve203 - I came to same conclusion you did re: Auburn. The 1937 Six would have been their play and maybe an Eight too, using 1935's 256 CID engine. Packard by then would have the 282 and could have started its interior trim at that year's richer CD level. Planning would have needed to have done a market study to see what Auburn's sales potential was. Sales had not been that great given that prices had long been in One Twenty's range:

1928 - 12,899
1929 - 23,509
1930 - 12,985
1931 - 34,228
1932 - 11,145
1933 - 5,038
1934 - 7,770
1935 - 6,316
1936 - 1,263

Packard would have needed to sell Auburns at Packard dealerships to given the project any chance. The mid-Thirties Auburn grill would have fit just fine in place of Packard's.

Here's a body style Packard would have needed to compete with the Buick 80 Club Sedan. I used the long front and rear doors from CD-138 and set the rear door termination back where the One Twenty is, and used the proposed 136" touring car's decklid. This forces a 134" wheelbase and 2" longer rear overhang, making this the odd man out in the line-up. There are many ways to skin the cat and this particular approach might have added needless cost. Needless cost, or better put, added cost of limited value was a no-no. I tried to stick with the same number of door sets, roofs, rear quarters and decklids that Packard had for the One Twenty program. This latest model adds another set of unique rear quarters. Getting all these parts fit in all these bodies would have been tough but Packard was good at it.

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Posted on: 2015/8/31 18:15
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Mahoning63
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This Club Sedan makes much more sense. Is same car as 136" Touring Sedan but has the 4" longer front and rear doors from CD-138. Rear door termination to rear fender is unique and would have needed to been clayed up such that it lined up with Touring Sedan's rear quarters. In fact the entire body program would have needed to have been carefully worked out before anything got tooled.

Am wondering if these new cars should have simply been called Eight and Super Eight. Maybe not, maybe they needed a restart.

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Posted on: 2015/8/31 18:32
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Mahoning63
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For all these cars the I/P that Packard used for the '35 Seniors was the ticket. The One Twenty's was nice but the Senior had that special Packard cache. Give the other to Auburn.

Packard5687 - this is the type of content that, I think, speaks to your point about M-B and how Packard needed to offer a consistent (high) standard no matter how small or junior its cars.

Posted on: 2015/8/31 18:42
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Steve203
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For all these cars the I/P that Packard used for the '35 Seniors was the ticket. The One Twenty's was nice but the Senior had that special Packard cache. Give the other to Auburn.

This might tickle your imagination. I found the application for the Auburn HQ building to be designated a national historic landmark. Includes an interesting history of the company.

The auto company was one of several companies that E L Cord controlled through his Cord Corporation. Cord's interest moved to aviation and he moved to California in 32. All that I knew. What I did not know: The executive committee of Cord Corporation voted to liquidate it's investment in the auto company on June 1, 32. They did not get around to completing the liquidation until 38, but the decision had been made.

The history also says their losses in 32 put the auto company into a cash deficit of $2.6M. The deficit grew to $3M in 33. I am not sure if the author means "cash" or "equity". If the company had no cash, it could not pay any bills or payroll. If Auburn was in negative equity, they were defacto bankrupt.

By 35, Auburn had lost many dealers, but 499, mostly multibrand dealers, remained.

So in 33, Auburn's major stockholder had decided to sell it's holdings, the comany was defacto bankrupt, but still had several hundred dealers and an established name.

http://www.nps.gov/nhl/find/statelists/in/AuburnCord.pdf

Posted on: 2015/9/1 0:52
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
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Mahoning63
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Looks like they were ripe for a purchase. Maybe the only thing that would have stalled a deal was upcoming Cord 810, which the company would probably have been depending on its Auburn dealers to sell.

The Microsoft Paint factory is still churning out models, latest is 7 passenger sedan which for the One Twenty would have been the CD-138 without the bustle back trunk, and for the One Sixty the same body with a 6 inch longer hood, shown in first image. I also ran out a version with a 10 inch longer hood, mimicking what Packard did in 1924 to create the Eight. For these would-have-been 1935 (or 36)Seniors, Packard could have chosen any hood length it wanted, needing only to strike a balance between practical concerns such as handling, maneuverability, garage-ability and weight, and appearance attributes of proportions and long flowing lines. There is no doubt a dramatic series of cars were within the company's grasp.

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Posted on: 2015/9/1 17:14
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
#19
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Owen_Dyneto
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As I recall the decline in Cord's holdings came about as a result of the Lindbergh kidnapping and his concern for his family's safety. He began to ignore or bail out of his various airline, shipbuilding, railroad and car holdings and left for what he felt was a safer venue in England. Though his automotive sector was in bad shape, I think his airline and shipbuilding (was it New York Shipbuilding?) were quite successful and had he held it until WW II it would have been a goldmine, it was the largest and most productive shipyard in the world during that time.

Posted on: 2015/9/1 17:26
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Re: 1935 - Turning Point and What-Ifs
#20
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Mahoning63
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Very interesting, Dave. Didn't know Lingbergh had anything to do with Cord.

Attempted rough graft of Auburn front onto Packard Six shown on right side of previous images. Simply slapping an Auburn grill onto the Packard Six might not have been enough. Auburn had completely different fenders and a shorter rear overhang, all of which gave it a distinctive look. Perhaps Packard could have bought Auburn's tooling in 1936 and made the cars alongside the One Twenty. Here too, easier said than done!

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Posted on: 2015/9/1 18:51
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