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Good Morning,

I'm trying to figure out if the engine in my 120 has ever been rebuilt.

The only thing I have to go on are the following details.
1. The odometer was showing just under 17000 miles when I got the car; has almost 21000 on it now, 2 years later
I know that the odometer can roll over, and this is no guarantee of any actual mileage
2. The gaskets seams on the engine all appear to have the same level of patina
3. I am curious if anyone knows if Packard used Pal Nuts in engine production, specifically on 19th series 282 connecting rod bolts, as lock nuts on top of regular nuts. See attached picture.

I did turn up Patent Number 1899715, which was issued in 1933.

Thanks,
Chad

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Sorry for the obvious answer, but if the bores and main/rod bearing are all still standard-sized and no evidence of things like piston expanders and the like, then I think you can assume it hasn't been rebuilt. If the bores are still standard you can measure the cylinder bore taper which would be somewhat of an indicator of mileage.

A clue about whether an engine has been apart is to look at the seams and gasket edges. If the gasket edges are showing their material and not painted like the engine, then it has been apart. This is not for certain as an overhauled or rebuilt engine could have also been repainted.

O_D, I think the head is still on the engine, just the pan removed for cleaning.

(o{}o)

The head is still on the engine, and hasn't been off since I've had the car.

Is there a way to know with a reasonable level of confidence one way or the other, without disassembly and measuring?

Couple more Pictures attached, maybe a clue here?
I did replace the manifold gaskets, as shown in the 1st attached picture.

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Is there a way to know with a reasonable level of confidence one way or the other, without disassembly and measuring?

No, not with a reasonable level of confidence.

I'm assuming that you posed the question because you want to know if you should rebuild the engine. I would suggest that you could perform a compression check (both dry & oil wet). If everything looks good pressure wise then use Plastiguage to measure the clearance of the rod and main bearings. While this would not answer your question, I would provide a measure of the soundness of the engine. That is not to say that all the other components are sound or not.

When you were driving it, did it show the 'typical' signs of engine wear?
- used oil
- blew smoke
- heavy fuming from oil filler tube after a run
- smoke from road pipe
- engine oil gets dark within a few thousand miles (ring blow-by)
- poor oil pressure
- a few more engine oil leaks than was typical for the model
- rattles or knocks ('piston slap')
- lacks power
- you see a lot of gum in crankcase, on side covers, sump has quite a lot of sludge in it
- take a plug out, check amount of coke on piston tops.

I would think that a properly rebuilt engine with not too many miles on it should be reasonably OK in regard to these symptoms, unless it was neglected and ran without regular oil changes, or was driven harshly.

Unfortunately, I have no vehicle history; I posed the question out of curiosity, trying to figure out if it's been rebuilt, without taking engine apart. Just trying to learn as much as I can about this fantastic vehicle.

I drive it regularly, usually once or twice a week. This past summer, one day I drove it 140 miles, in 95 degree temps, and it ran well, and engine temp was steady all day long.

The engine runs pretty strong; can pull up mild grade in 3rd + overdrive at 30mph, without hesitation. Oil pressure is good, temperature stays right in the middle of the gauge where it should. Engine is smooth, and quiet at all levels of throttle input, including unloading the throttle from a reasonable speed.

-It does smoke a little, when lifting off of the throttle; I assume this is a typical sign of blow-by.
-It doesn't smoke on startup; either cold or warm
-oil usage is minimal, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 quart in 600 miles
-I replaced the oil pan gasket shortly after I got it, there was minimal sludge, and since then I keep it on a regular oil change interval using Delo or Rotella
-The pictures of the bottom end show the engine as I found it; I was surprised at the relative level of cleanliness
I'll pull some plugs, and check for coke buildup.

I do appreciate all of your feedback, and time taken to answer my questions!
Thank You,
Chad

Sounds like a good-performing motor. Smoke when letting off the throttle is almost certainly from wear on the valve guides, not blow-by. Based on your oil consumption estimate it doesn't seem worthy of much concern at this point, just drive it and enjoy it!

Thank you O_D.

I stand corrected & learned something new...If you're smoking on acceleration look to the rings, if smoking on lift/upshift/downshift look to the valve seals.


Again, many thanks to everyone here who give of your valuable time to help us less versed keep our cars running and enjoyable.

-Chad