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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#11
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HH56
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If it is a vaporization process used on the emblems I am curious what metal or process in combination would produce the brilliant red color. I would think there must be a transparent red paint or lacquer with a metal deposit behind it.

Posted on: 2016/1/24 15:33
Howard
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#12
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Sorry Howard if there was some misunderstanding. The discussion was for the 55 frt marker lens and its silver and gold metallic rim and V. Its a clear lens. I think the red of the tail and amber of some side markers is simply a coloration of the plastic from which they are molded.

Posted on: 2016/1/24 19:02
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#13
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No confusion -- other than our usual jumping around subjects in threads. I know the lens question was about gold but as was mentioned in another post in the thread, others are trying to restore some emblems and trying to figure out how those were done.

Posted on: 2016/1/24 19:28
Howard
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#14
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I got you. I was interested in gold emblems as I thought the process might be applicable to these small areas on plastic. I had asked the question to all ( in 2 threads) if anyone had purchased the kit or was plating at home and if the results were worth while. Your mention of the caswell was the only response.I will so some research on that. I assume everyone who has multiple pieces(potmetal emblems and door handles bumpers etc) to restore is sending them out all at once to a plater. I was interested if anyone had experience with the Spa-plating process and/or was doing small items themselves. Had requested any 55 V8 clipper owners to inspect a fr marker lens for a verification of the metallic finishes and their placement on the lenses-no help. most cars stored away or under mountains of snow this time of year I presume.
I guess these finishes are more easily reproduced with paints on the external surfaces though not correct. I was just hoping for some before and after pics if someone had attempted a set. on Henry"s blog he mentioned spraying krylon into a container and brushing it in the back of the dash lenses. No real good before and after to compare. Is it a very close match? does all the orig gold have to come off? I have 1 where the gold is almost totally gone through natural erosion but the other has considerable (orig?) gold still on it. Wondering if you could just fill in on the back or if it will be an eye sore. dont want to ruin it but only way to know is trial n error I guess. Thanks though.
edit... By other plastic are you talking about the black and red on the
'ships wheel' clipper emblems on C pillar trim? I have never had them out to see the back. Just a paint?

Posted on: 2016/1/25 7:51
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#15
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I had forgotten about the red in the Clipper emblem but that is a good example. I was thinking of the shield in the Packard crest which has a large red background surrounded by gold and chrome with areas inside the red field also metallic. Those all plastic crest emblems are used in various places I think from about 52 on.

As to how the red is done has been the question. All of the ordinary type paints that I and others have tried is dull and lifeless when viewed thru the plastic from the front of the emblem. For that matter, so is the gold and silver hence the theory there might be some kind of plating involved.

In addition to your gold in the lens I expect the same process was used on the gold in the 56 senior gauges. Those are an embossed gold lettering on the rear of the plastic which corrodes to green over time. I think the 55 has a similar look although those may be silver. Don't remember if the the Clipper numerals were metallic or white. At any rate several are trying to figure out how to refinish the corroded gauge letters and flaking emblems.

Caswell has quite a few different kits starting with small ones for the hobbyist as well as some large dollar professional type kits. They sell direct as well as making many of their small hobbyist type kits available thru online and retail outlets. I am not familiar with the Spa-plating you asked about. I have only used one of the Caswell chrome kits and it was on some small pieces of brass. IIRC, for potmetal there is a different plating kit and additional plating steps needed. The plastic is anyones guess at the moment.http://www.caswellplating.com

Posted on: 2016/1/25 10:35
Howard
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#16
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Thanks for adding the link for caswell. I searched " plastic emblem" restor.... Instead of lens and did hit the link to emblem agic . I see the red you are talking about now. Reading their info page it seems they are backlogged or for another reason are not taking any new plastic emblem molding and repro at this time. Since this is the case , I see no reason why others cannot explore and recreate these finishes and post here for owners to do at home. The limiting factor being cracking/ hazing of orig plastic emblems and lenses. Their process of remolding in a newer plastic that will not hold up to UV like the orig did not impress me either.
Just for discussion the car I have has gold on the gage bezels only on the center medallion of ea guage. This and the V on the fr markers was wht I was assuming was the same process but I am unsure of that. I did not see any lenses on their site so if they are not taking any new emblems I am quite sure they wont be doing any 55 Clipper or 400 lenses, guages, or emblems so we are on our own. The closest I saw to my lens was a listing for a 74 caprice emblem on their page. It IS a clear plastic with a gold in the body and a silver rim to look the same. If they will take on no more new styles ol emblems n such we will have to discover the process and replicate it. They must have a paint coating or process to replicate this because I am fairly sure they dont have a vacuum dome chamber and are not re vapor depositing . Or are they? If so there is no chance of at home acceptable results. The Clipper c pillar (roof emblems) have a silver ship wheel and a black(paint) body. ? A 2 part process at the factory? Mask, vapor deposite the silver( aluminum) then hand paint black n red paint?

Posted on: 2016/1/25 11:10
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#17
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Hello 352 V8 fans. This started as query for the 55 Clipper marker lens chevron treatment but correspondence with others who have tried to restore plastic emblems finds a lack of success and little DIY info on these subjects.
From the info I have gathered it looks as though the vacuum vapor deposition method was used to create the silver and gold coatings on the inside of the plastic lenses. This method could be done after the lens was premasked on some surfaces and in fact done after( and over ) other coatings such as semi transparent red or blue. This did create a very brilliant, lustrous effect showing through the previously applied colors. In the case of the Clipper,an emblem could be masked on the back with a pre-punched "ship wheel spoke" design, sprayed black, then demasked and vapor deposit aluminum over top, resulting in a brilliant silver ship wheel on black as seen through the plastic from the front. In the case of the red emblems or the green steering wheel center cap, the Design is masked, painted with a semi-transparent red, ( or green, blue etc) then demasked and vapor deposited aluminum over the back giving a bright silver ship wheel showing on the areas that were masked clear plastic, and a luminous effect of the silver through the previously applied color. (This process is still being used by a company making pony car emblems and was described on an internet link- (some were 5 or6 step maskings). Recreating the luster on the plastic emblems has certainly been a challenge as many know trying to replicate the metallic effect with any type of silver paint is unsatisfactory. There is a you tube tutorial posted showing the red portion of a 70's Cougar emblem being restored. The textured(faceted) surface on the backside of the lens after cleaning off all old coating is sprayed with several coats of a semi transparent dark candy apple paint and then over coated with a spray of silver to try to achieve the original effect of the emblem. (Google or Search cougar emblem restoration in you tube). His method seems to be satisfactory though it is hard to tell in the pictures and he admits this is a trial and error ordeal adjusting the amount of red coats so as not to be too light or dark since the brilliance of the silver paint does not approach the vapor deposit. The texture or faceted surface on the back of some emblems adds to the effect but would seem to be very difficult to clean all the old coating off without etching or chemical hazing. The surface needs to be clean, clear, almost polished for acceptable restoration. ( Has anyone tried a sonic tank?)
As far as the original vapor deposition-the silver is said to be aluminum vaporized and the gold was a brass or bronze alloy and then coated with a gray paint for corrosion protection.
Speaking for most DIYers if not all, an acceptable finish without breaking the bank and DOES NOT require caustic chemicals, deadly fumes, or expensive materials that can be done at home is what we all search after. There may be an acceptable solution for the gold coating( and possibly the silver) on larger flat areas of some parts(ie the 55 fr marker lens chevron), as these areas are more easily cleaned of the old vapor deposit. There is one more effect going on on these plastic emblems and lenses I want to bring attention to which is hard to pick up on photos but I will try to do so. The plastic can be up to 1/8 inch thick and when they were originally produced a silver, gold, green ,or red coating on a polished EDGE of these parts causes a "fiber optic" effect transmitting this hue up the "skin" of the plastic. This needs to be reproduced also to achieve the original pleasing appearance that your eye picks up. Look at the pic of the steering wheel center cap medallion. The edge where a finger is pointing to a green band which is INSIDE the thickness of the plastic visible as a dark green tone only at this angle - diminishing lighter and lighter as the your reference angle changes more to vertical from the surface. This is not a tint in the plastic. It is from the edge treatment. These 55 lenses will only look right if coated on the inside of the plastic with an appropriate material and treated to an edge treatment with another material.
On the 55 gages "gold" center medallion and the 55 Clipper silver ships wheels and the silver and gold fr marker lenses I had asked if anyone had pioneered an acceptable coating to reproduce the metallic effect?(that is DIY). I have 2 other questions. Can anyone else confirm the 55 Clipper fr marker lens with chevron has silver coatings on the inside of the rim and EDGES of the plastic and gold on the inside of the chevron and the edges but not on the side walls(inner or outer) of the separation wall between the clear lens and the top of the chevron? My originals were quite worn. I would ask anyone to post pics of the inner face of a lens here(or mail me a spare lens for photo representation). I would like to confirm that the original design intended for (or did not) light to be allowed onto the chevron with parking lights on. Also if anyone could tell me if there is a left and right fr marker lens? I checked the parts book and the housings are the same part # rt and left so they are the same but my lenses are both "guide F8-55" and have RH on top and a small part number on the back on the edge of the lens which does not match the number in the parts book for the lenses. Was there a rt and left or only 1 lens produced for cost savings? Thanks.
I also want to thank the gentlemen from Signs n Things for the generosity , expertise and time!
55 st wheel orig center
55 marker lens




Having trouble resizing pix on phone

Posted on: 2016/2/9 18:56
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Re: Chrome, gold plating, brush plating, vapor deposition
#18
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Here are a couple of photos posted for customclipper55

Attach file:



jpg  (18.56 KB)
209_56ba88d1e71d4.jpg 320X320 px

jpg  (6.22 KB)
209_56ba88dae1953.jpg 180X320 px

Posted on: 2016/2/9 19:48
Howard
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