Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Hey, don't get me wrong! I do like the self-level system ... when it was working. I just don't feel comfortable working with any electrical systems. I really want it to work again.

I believe that in 1955, Packard bit off more than it could chew -- it was still moving into the Connor plant, it was bringing out a new body, it released its first V-8 engine, it released its new Twin-Ultramatic, and it was the first American car with a full torsion-bar suspension with self-leveling. Just a couple of those items would have been a big deal with most carmakers at that time.

That there were as few problems with those new cars is a testament to Packard innovation and quality.

It is highly unlikely that a T-L motor becomes worn out so that it will not rotate. You had the motor replaced and it seems it still does not work "because the mechanic could not figure out the wiring" Not real difficult, the motor has only 2 wires, one for each direction. If they are switched the compensator motor would run backwards.

Non-operation in both directions is usually a simple fuse.

Thanks
James

I thought about turning off the leveling switch as you describe. The owner's manual says to turn it off when jacking up the car to change a tire. I think I'll try your idea.

as someone who drove a car with auto torsion level it was a great ride and never failed. Sorry some are having trouble getting them operational or finding skilled professionals to work on them but this is more due to the financial aspect of paying for those skills or the tech wanting to tie up a lift while the repair is completed. unfortunate the electrical control is under the car as well next to the torsion motor. this certainly makes it hard to service for the DIY er at home and seems to be an issue for cars driven as daily drivers in the elements. Fine for the weekend cruiser though.

This article helped me troubleshoot my torsion leveling system problem. Thank you for the post.

I am an absolute loyal fan of the torsion level, I don't think I could look at another car without it personally.
The only thing that has come close or equal is the legendary Citroen DS of the same vintage, but thats a whole different kettle of fish and they had innumerable other issues, at least Packard's system is mechanical and understandable and only works with the suspension.

One huge thing I've noticed and am surprised at is: my levelizer was old and rusty (as they are) so I converted the left hand ashtray with a surplus aerial control to being a manual control - push the handle in, car goes down, pull out car goes up et al.

Where the surprise is: is that I am adjusting it all the time. I thought the car would stay put once adjusted, but it doesn't. The car can slowly continually rise up or down dependent on acceleration, rough surfaces etc, and hence need manual adjustment. You can see it happening on the odd Packard video, especially slow motion shots on say, "out of the future" sales promo. The car goes over the rough roads superbly, suspension bouncing merrily away, and you can see the whole rake of the car slowly start to nose up after some distance - then the levelizer comes in.

But when you think about it, the only suspension attachment points to the car frame / bady, are pivotal: the front suspension arms (movable), the shock mounts, and the watts linkage (again, all movable). The only other-than-levelizer item keeping the car on an even keel is the natural progression rates of the shocks, and they aren't exactly pre-set for self centering.
I realise the load leveling short bars connect to the frame, but of course they connect through a series of links etc so don't really provide a firm footing for the whole suspension arm length.

The automatic levelizer is going back on after I sort out my crank issue....

I had actually read that Packard marketing themselves hit upon the idea of the automatic load levelizer after they discovered this inability to self level, and turned what could have been a drawback into an exceptional advertising feature, or so the story went....

Muir

An overstated but maybe apt descriptions of a TL car was in one of the publications. It went something like:

Think of the car body as being similar to a person balanced in the center of a teeter totter. If something affects one end the teeter totter will unbalance and start to move. If nothing counters the movement the teeter totter end will continue to move in that direction until it can move no more. All the while the ends are moving great distances, the person in the center is on a relatively stable platform feeling minimal movement.

Mr Allison, developer of the Torsion Level system, was aware from the get go that the cars would need a leveler. On an interconnected system such as TL, the car is essentially balanced at its center of gravity to take advantage of the car's higher translational rather than polar moment of inertia. Thus the "level" part. However, being balanced at its center of gravity, even slight variations of load will cause it to settle to one end or the other. This is countered by the hysteresis of the rubber bushings to some degree; they were designed to be sufficient to keep the car from settling one way or the other after passing bumps or dips. Load changes were to be handled by the leveler.

I don't think Mr. Allison was taken by surprise by characteristics of his own design and needed to add a leveling device after the fact. The cycle-car prototype is fitted with a leveling sytem; he made them from two Hudson window regulators, complete with cranks.

If TL cars are in need of constant re-leveling now it is due to deterioration of the rubber bushings that have lost their self centering effect. The upper inner bushing have a major influence. I treated my 56 to all new bushings 40,000 miles ago and it still levels rarely while underway.

Another cause of excessive need for leveling is shocks with excessive rebound action. I installed some really stiff Gabriels (I think) on a TL car years ago and had to take them off. The self centering action of the suspension was no match for their rebound setting and the car would nose down after every bump causing the leveler to come on. Generally speaking TL cars can get by with fairly soft shocks because the natural frequency of the suspension is much lower than conventional. They should be stiff enough to prevent wheel bounce and not a whole heck of a lot more for best ride.

There is probably a copy of the SAE paper on TL on site somewhere. That is an interesting read.

Hiya Ross,

I do agree with your comments, although I have a feeling the the natural hysteresis of rubber bushes is possibly (only possibly) more sound in theory than in practice, but hey, I fully admit I haven't had any actual experience with a rebushed, refurbished car so I could be totally wrong.

And I do apologise, What I'd written about the Marketing department and the levelizer wasn't worded as well as it could've been: what I meant to say was that Packard Marketing turned around a possible drawback: i.e extra suspension links and bars, automatic underfloor motors whirring away, and other hi-tech stuff (this is trying to sell a sophisticated hi tech car to the general public still in awe of the marvels of the OHV and the wunderbar) so you turn the whirring levelizer mechanism that keeps your wayward car level into a load leveling mechanism with no dips, kids in the back, rear end dip racing away from stop lights, don't dazzle the oncoming cars etc and it sounds a whole lot better as a deluxe accessory rather than a necessary suspension item.

I don't actually know if that's worded much better!?!

I've got some cheapy gabriel brand I think they are: they're the cheap ones off ebay for a '56 Caddy (you know what ebays like "also fits: Packard Kia Hyundai"). They're nice vintagey looking black ones and I figured if they're cheap they shouldn't be excessively HD nitrogen magnetic shocks so we should be safe.


P.S I think my cars bushes are just old and worn out. Bit like the driver :)

Well as past caretakers of a 55 custom we drove a torsion level car for almost a decade and I must say I am completely surprised. I have never come across anyone mentioning this sort of problem with the torsion level suspension nor did we ever experience this. Most of the time we drove the car we drove it with the torsion level switch off so as to preserve the torsion level motor and it's mechanicals for the next caretaker. In all the time I never experienced any creep any movement or any changes in the ride height or the setting of the torsion level. Though there was a switch installed to control ride height so as to exaggerate the abilities of the torsion level at Shows and car cruise ins ,we got tired of people standing on the bumper without asking. When set up with The tank half-full and perfectly level stance the only time we noticed the difference was at near empty fuel tank slightly high and full tank slightly lower then the exact midpoint of the rear tire. As someone who has extensive experience with bushings in 60s 70s 80s vehicles I must say that there is a reason why the final tightening of the center bolt of all bushings happens it ride height. Not withstanding the fancy vernacular stated above,the center bushing sleeve has a serrated edge for reason. When the bolt is tightened on a bushing with the center sleeve with a serrated edge it locks to the chassis which is what it supposed to do. This must be done at ride height so that the bushing is not under twisting stress or tension at normal stance. Thus these type of bushings are an integral part of the suspension including rebound ,ride height and return. The pleasure of the torsion level suspension was due to its ability to create a very soft rear spring rate which allowed a very smooth ride. The leveling system that compensated for any additional weight in the backseat or the trunk allowed for the soft spring rate to create a smooth ride without compromise of a low rear ride height with additional weight added. I cannot comment on shocks as I believe they were original to the vehicle and the only repair made to them was a replacement of the lower shock bushings so a query to the new owner of the clipperwould be suggested to see if they have had the same result. Muir, if you are having problems with your suspension I suspect there is something in need of repair. I do find it interesting however that all Americans refer to them as bushings and those driving on the other side of the road say bushes. Dont they grow from the ground? Lol.