Packard Forum Index » Project Blogs

Is that a Patrician beside it?

Not a Patrician, sorry Peter. Not enough doors on this one for a Patrician. :)

Ah Yes. I read the posts a few back and a 400. Excellent shed and a great Bloke and Missus. PT

Grim day in the shed today.

Took the water jacket cover off; knew there was a likelihood of bad corrosion inside it that would need to be cleaned out. Almost too afraid to post the pics, but here they are. How depressed should I be?

Flying virtually solo down here so I'm appreciative of any advice.

Thanks in advance,

John

Attach file:

---

  (240.89 KB)


  (305.61 KB)


  (357.00 KB)


  (272.79 KB)

Wow, pretty grim! The worst I've ever seen, surely prior owners were pretty neglectful - accepted way to lay up an engine is either bone-dry or completely full with permanent antifreeze or water plus corrosion inhibitors. No doubt it's pretty much the same inside the cylinder head and on the far side of the block.

Short of stripping the engine and hot-soaking the cylinder bores and head, your only real choice will be to clean as best you can by mechanical means. You could remove the head and have it tanked along with the side plate. On the far side of the block you could remove the core plugs to get further access to the cooling passages around the valve seats etc. You could also get some further access by removing the water pump (I wonder if the imnpeller is till intact?). When you've removed all you can by mechanical means and aided by water blasts and the like, you could button it up and use the standard oxalic acid method as a final step though you risk loosening crud which will then flow to and block the radiator passages so you'll want some sort of filter sock in line. With so many surfaces that you can't get at I'd question if you can ever get it acceptably clean without stripping and tanking.

Get or borrow a 2800+ psi pressure washer equipped with a rotary nozzle. Tarp all the surroundings carefully and methodically blast in every direction. I think you will be pleased with the results. Finish up by blowing down into the head through the water outlet to flush as many flakes as possible out. Then proceed with Owen's suggestion of oxalic acid. When you get the car running, make a long shallow cone of fine screen and place it in the outlet hose.

Thank you both very much for your advice, Ross and Owen_D.

Feeling a bit daunted by this discovery. I was so hoping to delay the inevitable engine removal and complete rebuild for a year or two while I prepare for it.

I'm weighing up my options now.

Still 50% tempted to try Ross's suggestion with optimism, but that's only delaying the inevitable, isn't it? With a fair chance of other immediate problems being exposed.

Also 50% leaning towards the realisation that I might have to embark on an adventure unlike any I've ever experienced before; the removal and rebuild from scratch of this engine.

I know you blokes will help a lot if I do that, thanks. And I'm sure going to need it because I'm no mechanic. No dunderhead either; in fact with a past career as a manufacturing engineer I should have the courage to try.

Can't just farm it out to an expert for two reasons; 1 affordability and 2 lack of readily available and appropriate expertise.

Still thinking... and maybe planning.

Cheers, John

I would not be too worried about the junk in the block behind the water jacket. I have seen a lot worse. i would try the pressure washer and get as much as possible out. You may need to put one of the in-line filters into your top hose to prevent particles blocking the core. It may pay to blow out the block and radiator at some stage. It doesn't take long and works a treat. I would suggest that the engine or block does not need to come out. PT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYvYILsbGEw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyrD0Mnlow8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JldGVKWmTsI

G'day John,

I see that while preparing my long-winded reply that Peter Packard has ducked in and given some succinct advice. However seeing I prepared an answer I'm not letting it go to waste, so here goes:

From my viewpoint an engine rebuild of a '35 Eight would not be for the fainthearted or inexperienced. However, before needing to go that far, consider removing both the head and valve chamber covers as well as the sump(pan for our US friends) and dropping some con rod and main bearing caps. Then a visual inspection and measurement of the wearing surfaces of the engine will assist you in determining whether an engine rebuild is necessary. Inspect and measure cylinder walls for wear, taper and out-of-roundness. Inspect and measure rod and main bearing journals for wear and out-of-roundness. You'll be able to see whether valve work or replacement is necessary. And at the least you'll be able to clean out the sludge in the sump and give the oil pickup a thorough cleaning. If it all checks out and is good to go as is, all it'll cost you is the time and effort of the work required and a full gasket set. I believe you can do it all with the engine in car but for ease of access it'll be better done out of the car. Others(O_D?) with much more hands on experience will be able to better advise.

A couple of other things:

In your first photo of the corrosion buildup I notice the oil filler is removed but that the passageway to the sump is not plugged with a rag or other "stopper". If any flakes of corrosion have fallen into the sump you'll need to pull the sump anyway to remove them. I had to this for my '41 120 when part of a valve stem collet slipped into my sump. In the end I was glad it did because I then came face to face with the 1" of sludge

I've cropped that first photo and reposted it below to highlight the sideplate cover and the distribution tube which is formed with and by the interior tapered panel which directs coolant to the required areas. If that tapered panel with the directional holes has corroded you'll need to repair or replace it otherwise you'll run hot and/or overheat. Luckily, Dave a member of the Bass Coast Car Club, remakes sideplates and gave a talk at the Technical Forum held during PACA's National Rally at Philip Island in 2013, so help is near if required. I'm sure the Vic guys will have Dave's contact details. Note, that's Peter Packard in the pic below, just part of the appreciative audience that night!

EDIT - that's strange, instead of the cropped photo being attached, the original photo attached! Maybe I cropped it too much and the "system" then went back to the original?

Attach file:

---

  (240.89 KB)


  (25.96 KB)

Thanks very much for your thoughts Peter and Mal.

Crikey that flushing process is spectacular Peter! And thanks for the encouragement to continue with the in-situ resuscitation.

Thanks too, Mal, for your thoughts and info. Yes I was very careful to cover the oil inlet, except for while taking the picture, sorry.

I am almost ready to remove the sump / oil pan, too. It was to be next job on the list. I spent quite some time yesterday tweaking the supports to make it safer under. I have it nicely supported on big jack stands now, so I feel it's safer to go under. The front pair are under the spring brackets and the rear ones are supporting the diff housing. This task was made easier by a big floor jack I bought last week. It seems pretty stable to me now; I would like the front stands to be further apart but that doesn't seem possible because the steering gear interferes with the right side.

Don't worry about corrosion in the water cover plate and its internal distribution plate. It will shine up as good as the day it was made. It's type 316 stainless steel, there's not a speck of rust on it. My father had it made in the 80s because the ancient one was past useful service.

Whichever way I go is now going to take a while. I can't pressure clean it until I roll it outside, and I can't do that until I clear the agricultural junk from outside the adjacent shed door, fit a scraper blade to dad's tractor and clear the pile of earth there, buy a load of gravel and resurface the approach. Maybe by spring if I'm lucky.

Every job and obstacle seems to lead to another job and obstacle!

Cheers, John