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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
Latest from Jim:

"Right now I am at a standstill on the Indy Build. Everything was going well but when installing the clutch, pressure plate, I noticed some one in the past had bent one of the 3 fingers on the pressure plate, then upon further study, the adjusting bolt on the finger was ground down? I checked around and found out that the 1954 Packard 327 straight 8 used an 11” pressure plate with a 10 ˝” clutch disc. Mine was a 10” disc. My throw out bearing turns too hard for more usage. I did find a source for all the replacement parts, but very,(very) expensive. Is there a way to do a cross reference check to see if other Auto Manufacturers used the same set up ? I did compare 2 early Ford truck clutch set ups, but one the bolt pattern on the pressure plate was too small and the other too large. Another set up is coming in this evening at O Reilly’s to compare with mine. Got any ideas Mal?"

Checked the X-Ref on Site but it doesn't look like there's anything there to help you Jim. I do know with my 289 Ford V8 powered dragster with the Packard trans we used a Ford clutch plate, 10" I think(it was 45+ years ago, but with a Schieffer aluminium(aluminum) pressure plate). Also looked at my Hollander interchange manual but it only goes to 1951. Anyone able to point Jim in the right direction?

Posted on: 2016/7/12 16:42
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
Updates from Jim:

"I found another avenue to go down in finding a clutch set up. O Reilly’s ( A parts store here )here has 2 more clutch set ups coming in this morning for inspection, another clutch set up came in last night at O Reilly’s and the bolt pattern was the same but this time the input shaft pilot hole was a different diameter. We will find a suitable clutch set up"

&

"Steve Small and I finally painted the Indy Body White this afternoon. Yesterday I spent an hour and a half taking apart and cleaning and regreasing the old throw out bearing because a new one could not be found. Now I’m missing the fork spring that holds the throwout bearing to the fork but have an idea to make a clip. I went to La Crosse Sign this morning with the Indy body for an estimate for they’re going to make the numbers and lettering on the body. Maybe next week I’ll be able to bring it back there and have it all installed"

Attach file:



jpg  Body painted.jpg (44.01 KB)
226_578838497c24e.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Body painted2.jpg (46.63 KB)
226_57883855f1276.jpg 800X450 px

Posted on: 2016/7/14 18:12
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
Apologies to Jim, I'm a day late getting this onto the Blog!

"Here is the updated version of the drive train plight. The clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing replacement or updated parts was a rough journey but I think this new info will help someone else out that gets in the same boat. Logic tells me that there are only a few manufacturing companies that make all of the manual transmission drive parts for all of the auto makers. Here is the new homemade design I came up with the old throw out bearing and the replacement pressure plate. The old throw out bearing didn’t have a spring or clips to hold itself to the clutch fork, so I removed the 2 spring clips from an old throw out bearing, then drilled holes in the Packard collar and riveted the clips, it worked fine. The old pressure plate has 3 thin fingers and the throw out bearing slid off center of the plate fingers which resulted in bending one of the fingers and it ground down the adjusting bolt on that bent finger. The replacement pressure plate has thicker fingers and the throw out bearing rides nicely on all 3 fingers now. The new pressure plate came from an O’ Reilly’s auto parts store. The replacement pressure plate was designed for a 1953 to 1967 Ford F-100 truck, also the Fairlane, and Galaxie Ford models of that era, 6 and 8 cylinder used this size pressure plate. Several clutch set ups were brought in until the bolt pattern of the pressure plate matched up. The clutch disc was another story. Ford used a 10 spline with a 1 and a 1/16th input manual transmission bore and Packard with the straight 8 clutch plate used a 1 and 1/8th bore. This was not brought to light until after a 3 and ˝ hour fight to get my tranny in the bell housing"

AND

"the latest pictures of the updated Indy body, the next step with the body is the lettering and numbers"

Attach file:



jpg  Throw out bearing.jpg (55.87 KB)
226_5790672352957.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Old pressure plate.jpg (51.87 KB)
226_5790672ea6c89.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  New pressure plate(fuzzy).jpg (27.96 KB)
226_57906739b1202.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Painted body.jpg (14.27 KB)
226_579067b50d97f.jpg 288X512 px

jpg  Painted body2.jpg (16.10 KB)
226_579067c0ecf9b.jpg 288X512 px

jpg  Painted body3.jpg (38.77 KB)
226_579067cc4bbe2.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Painted body4.jpg (44.81 KB)
226_579067d70f8af.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Painted body5.jpg (43.24 KB)
226_579067e21a2a6.jpg 800X450 px

Posted on: 2016/7/20 23:14
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
Latest update from Jim:

"Finally the Indy frame and Packard drive line is back together again. The carb is just sitting on the intake for now. She is coming along and no real problems. More pictures coming"

Attach file:



jpg  Frame and Packard drive line.jpg (54.57 KB)
226_5793e803f3509.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Frame and Packard drive line2.jpg (57.62 KB)
226_5793e80dc430e.jpg 800X450 px

jpg  Frame and Packard drive line3.jpg (54.94 KB)
226_5793e81c289e5.jpg 800X450 px

Posted on: 2016/7/23 14:56
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
More from Jim, after I asked him the question: "what carb are you using?"

"It is a #1405 Edelbrock with an electric choke add on. The #1406 Edelbrock does come with an electric choke from the factory. Both of them are 600 CFM carbs. I had to use 2 adaptor plates so the carb could clear the stock exhaust manifold"

Posted on: 2016/7/23 16:30
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Home away from home
Joined:
2015/1/16 9:43
From sw, pa
Posts: 1186
Will 650 cfms be to much carb? John

Posted on: 2016/7/23 20:13
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/4/11 10:01
From Heilbronn Germany
Posts: 803
calculating using displacement and a max rpm of 3500/4000 you get a theoretical CFM of something slightly less than 300. I would also think that 600 is a bit much for the engine, but it is a race car.
I couldn't find too detailed specs on the edelbrock carb. Are the bores much different that the original/optional 4bbl carb? Either way, I imagine Jim would have to change metering rods and jets to get any carb dialed in.
PS, the project looks really cool, and I enjoy seeing it take shape! Looks awesome.

Edit: the stock carb has 1 1/16" venturi diameter on the primary and secondaries. The edelbrock has 1 3/16" primary and 1 9/16" secondaries. That is quite a step up in carb size. If it were my engine, I would just stay with the original 4bbl carb, or a 500 edelbrock carb, but that's just me. I've never hand built my own racer like Jim, so lets see how she runs when the time comes

Posted on: 2016/7/23 23:46
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1953 Clipper Delux Club Sedan, 1969 912, 1990 Miata, 2009 Ford S-Max.
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2015/7/10 11:28
From La Crescent, Mn. 55947
Posts: 24
Hi John:
Thank you for your interest in this odd Indy car build. You are right, a 500 CFM carb would have been easier to set up, but this is what I had left when I sold all my carbs, gaskets and carb equipment. I did manage to keep all my strip kits for Carter and Edelbrock carbs that I used when altering the main and needle jets in the past. This is a first for me to make a Packard straight 8 perform, but it is a 327 cubic engine, the same size that GM and other auto manufacturers built 50 some years ago using multiple carb set ups. Pontiac and Chevy come to mind mostly. Oldsmobile in 1956 or so had what they called a J-2 series engine that ran a 3 deuce carb set up, so did Pontiac ( The Bonneville )in 1963 in their 421 CID engines. They later found better acceleration at the strip by setting up mechanical linkage instead of the factory progressive linkage. The other factor I'm pondering on is that in the past I could work with different cams, but in this case the Packard is a stock motor. I also thought of running 2, two barrel carbs. Years ago Edelbrock, Offenhauser and others made an adaptor to fit on a four barrel intake so you could run dual carbs. I'm sorry, I got off track, yep, it will be a challenge with this carb, the whole Indy build has been a challenge and I don't know how it will turn out but that's the fun of a build like this. Every day when I walk into the garage I ask myself, well what are you going to mess up today ? .....LOL,
Thanks John,
Jim

Posted on: 2016/7/24 4:42
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2015/7/10 11:28
From La Crescent, Mn. 55947
Posts: 24
Hi All:
In appreciation for Mal and all the other Packard members that have been helping and following this build, next week I'm taking the Indy body back down to La Crosse Sign company to have lettering done to honor the Packard. Once it comes back and the body is on the frame again, I'll send pictures,
Thanks again,
Jim

Posted on: 2016/7/24 4:52
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Re: Jim's Packard powered "Indy" car
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10569
Jim sent some more pic's as well as commentary on them:

"The Indy body is back from the Lettering and sign shop and today I got far enough to be able to get the body on to the frame. There is bottom trim and Packard emblems to go on yet but I had to send what I have so far. Other emails with pictures coming. A few have me in the driver’s seat. After we get back from visiting Australia, I’ll try and get some off the lights on and the steering back in."

"The lettering is a gift to you and the Packard Club for all your advice and patience. She does look better in person than in the pictures. There is bottom trim that goes along the length of the body that has to go on yet."

"Here are the last of the pictures taken today. My buddy, Gene, (Sitting in the car) helped me get the body on, (along with 2 of my neighbors…LOL)."

Pity that Jim will be about 1,400 kms north of me on his Aussie visit otherwise we would have caught up.

I like the lettering and appreciate Jim's tribute to Packard power!

Attach file:



jpg  Body on Indy1.jpg (87.16 KB)
226_57a6a97b1f671.jpg 970X546 px

jpg  Body on Indy2.jpg (69.79 KB)
226_57a6a9885bb7d.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Body on Indy3.jpg (66.04 KB)
226_57a6a9b2a9dfc.jpg 970X546 px

jpg  Body on Indy4.jpg (78.02 KB)
226_57a6a9be6d730.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Body on Indy5.jpg (100.48 KB)
226_57a6a9cbc067d.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Body on Indy6.jpg (92.51 KB)
226_57a6a9d845ccf.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Body on Indy7.jpg (88.67 KB)
226_57a6a9e7f0279.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Body on Indy8.jpg (102.16 KB)
226_57a6a9f508556.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Jim in Indy.jpg (102.82 KB)
226_57a6aa038c754.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Jim in Indy2.jpg (100.31 KB)
226_57a6aa172f488.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Jim in Indy3.jpg (101.86 KB)
226_57a6aa263880b.jpg 1065X599 px

jpg  Buddy Gene in Indy.jpg (105.74 KB)
226_57a6ac8b42237.jpg 1366X768 px

jpg  Buddy Gene in Indy2.jpg (144.50 KB)
226_57a6ac9bb9041.jpg 1366X768 px

Posted on: 2016/8/6 20:31
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



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