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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#31
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John McCall and Mitch Parker
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Please excuse. Just trying to help. The Cormorant article again shows that 1049 is trim code MTV. (1050 on the next line is MES). Must be a mis-print since you owned this car.
Did not realize your code was MKN on the stolen car. It is hard to tell in a faded picture. You did not say anything about the paint code in the first post I don't believe.
According to the Cormorant Roster (compiled by Stuart Blond who I would trust fully)from which I gathered this information, the only Caribbeans to have been equipped with factory air on the line were these serial numbers:

1021,1049,1094,1095,1105,1119,1129,1186,1193,1231,1237,1248,1267,1272 and 1276.

For those numbers having air conditioning and the trim code MKN, that renders only this number:

1105

But, as you have pointed out (and I am aware of same) a few cars did get the factory dash plenum style a/c systems after assembly, and many owners--I am sure--added real wire wheels to their cars. As you have pointed out, that will complicate the search.

By the way, with all this personal record-keeping you have compiled through the years on Caribbeans, do you have any information about my car 5699-1179?

Posted on: 2016/6/30 6:41
1956 Packard Caribbean Convertible
1956 Packard Patrician Touring Sedan
1938 Eight Touring Sedan
1949 Custom Eight Touring Sedan
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#32
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Leeedy
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Hello... there were many more V8s with factory air installed than factory records show-including 1956 Caribbeans. As I have pointed out in the past, dealerships such as Earle C. Anthony installed several of these units and the service manager there once told me that they kept at least one factory air unit in stock at all times in case a customer wanted one. In a place like Southern California and for a customer buying a premium car at a premium price, air conditioning in those days (while relatively rare in the market) might be sale or no sale deal breaker.

ECA indeed might send a car to ARA for a quickie install in the trunk to prevent losing a sale or to keep a customer happy, but they installed many a factory air system.

Yes, have records on your MTV car, of course. 1179 was originally delivered in New York City. At one time it was owned by Les Bowen in Greensburg, PA.

I mis-typed in my previous posting on numbers. These things happen when doing postings in the middle of the night. My other car was 1043 which was an MES car, not 1049. I have corrected the post accordingly. I apologize for the error.

As far as records of which car had wire wheels when new, this would be almost futile in the case of V8 Packards. So many had wires added. Good example: I had a 1956 Four Hundred with both factory air and wires. Yet the original records showed neither on the car... but I bought it from the original owner who insisted he bought it that way NEW from ECA in downtown Los Angeles.

Dealers-especially big ones in premium markets like SoCal, could load up a car with all kinds of accessories and bolt-on options. So going to factory records and build sheets really is not a one-to-one equation at all.

Posted on: 2016/6/30 9:30
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#33
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John McCall and Mitch Parker
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Since you appear to be a real expert on factory installed air vs. dealer installed air with the same set-up, and being able to tell the differences, couldn't you narrow the field in search of your VIN based on that? If indeed your inspection of your car showed that it was installed at the factory...then it would only be the VIN (1105)I narrowed it down to, right (deleting any clues from wire wheels)? If you detected that the air system was installed by a dealer, then that opens up many other possible cars...but it still narrows the field somewhat to those not accounted for.

Thanks for the information you gave on my car. It is the same information I have had for many years, Mr. Bowen moving to Florida and selling the car to someone in the Mid West who I could never track down. For those interested, my car was purchased from new from the New York Zone t

Posted on: 2016/6/30 10:25
1956 Packard Caribbean Convertible
1956 Packard Patrician Touring Sedan
1938 Eight Touring Sedan
1949 Custom Eight Touring Sedan
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#34
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Leeedy
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Quote:

Esquireman wrote:
Since you appear to be a real expert on factory installed air vs. dealer installed air with the same set-up, and being able to tell the differences, couldn't you narrow the field in search of your VIN based on that? If indeed your inspection of your car showed that it was installed at the factory...then it would only be the VIN (1105)I narrowed it down to, right (deleting any clues from wire wheels)? If you detected that the air system was installed by a dealer, then that opens up many other possible cars...but it still narrows the field somewhat to those not accounted for.

Thanks for the information you gave on my car. It is the same information I have had for many years, Mr. Bowen moving to Florida and selling the car to someone in the Mid West who I could never track down. For those interested, my car was purchased from new from the New York Zone t


No. Gotta let go of clinging to the paper records. They won't prove anything...even IF they are accurate to a point. May seem like a good idea... but just seems like a good idea.

Again, this takes us back to what got done on line at the factory... what got done OFF-line at the factory... what got done at the zones... and what got done at the dealers. My aunt worked back then for a fellow responsible for overseeing many activities at Conner Avenue. I still have my notes made in the 1970s where he told me they had a separate building on Conner where they were doing factory air, and off-line repairs (cars that would not start, body damage, cars with wrong parts installed, etc.).

Then or today... without visually inspecting each and every 1956 Caribbean up close and personal, there just is no way for anyone to know. And there were no records kept on all these various activities. They just had too many bigger pressing issues and nobody kept these kinds of records.

Good luck on finding your Caribbean. It may still turn up if it hasn't been shipped out of the country. As for my Caribbean... I would recognize it anywhere, anytime. There ARE things about that particular car that only I would know. All for a reason...

Posted on: 2016/6/30 13:12
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#35
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Leeedy,
Missed seeing you perform and or present at the PAC meet this year.

In all of your time with Packard factory/dealer people and records, do you have any or know of any information on the 55 Caribbeans that seem to exist for the 56 Caribbeans?

Posted on: 2016/6/30 13:25
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#36
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Leeedy
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Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
Leeedy,
Missed seeing you perform and or present at the PAC meet this year.

In all of your time with Packard factory/dealer people and records, do you have any or know of any information on the 55 Caribbeans that seem to exist for the 56 Caribbeans?


Hello, didn't make it to 2016 PAC National. Originally planned to go but hotel was sold out when I tried to sign up last December and I eventually gave up. Also have been busy with final editing on the Creative Industries book, so ended up not having sufficient time to attend anyway.

Had hoped to attend and do a new PowerPoint presentation of my newly updated Packard Dream Car talk. But too many things going on all at once. And to complicate things further, my violinist (for music performance) was busy doing a TV show for PBS.

Anyway, not sure I understand the question RE: 55/56 Caribbeans. I did ride in 1956 Caribbean prototype when it was first built. It was MES color and had wire wheels. Seat backs were different from normal production 1956. I later learned that the car I rode in was actually a 1955 made to look like a 1956.

And... one of my biggest Packard thrills was to drive the 1955 Howard Hughes/Jean Peters Caribbean back in the 1970s when my friend bought it from Hughes' people. It was like driving a new-old-stock Caribbean and with that fabulous Packard ride.

Posted on: 2016/6/30 16:42
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#37
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I guess I didn't explain very well.

There seems to be much more information on the 56 Caribbeans, and all of the models. The build sheets exist, for example.

This information, as far as I know does not exist for the 55 Caribbeans, or any of the other models. I was wondering if you had, or knew, or were aware of the build sheets or prior owners of the 55 Caribbean's.

Posted on: 2016/7/1 14:51
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#38
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Leeedy
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Quote:

Let the ride decide wrote:
I guess I didn't explain very well.

There seems to be much more information on the 56 Caribbeans, and all of the models. The build sheets exist, for example.

This information, as far as I know does not exist for the 55 Caribbeans, or any of the other models. I was wondering if you had, or knew, or were aware of the build sheets or prior owners of the 55 Caribbean's.


Yes, actually there is some 1955 info that exists. I had a whole box of it for 1955 that came from the Conner plant, but that was stolen when my car was stolen. I'm certain the greedy bozos that did the stealing probably tossed the big box of papers. After all, it would have required the ability to read and the ability to recognize historical value.

You might also want to check with R.C. Stelford on factory Caribbean records for V8s. Most of my 1955 records are from cars personally observed since the 1960s.

I once had all of the records cornered on 1953-54 but the person in Michigan who had them died and the whereabouts of these papers since then has been in limbo. Hopefully they were not destroyed. Still working on this one.

Posted on: 2016/7/2 12:22
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#39
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Owen_Dyneto
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I took a first hand look today at 5699-1001 as it was being moved to a new owner. It didn't look that much different than when I saw it in 1999 at the Centennial so at least it's had protected storage since then, but the overall condition is just appalling, as near to hopeless as can be yet still hold the faintest hope that some sort of rescue might be remotely possible though likely a replacement body tub will be needed and perhaps a frame as well. If it wasn't #1001, it would probably have been junked decades ago. What a shame, only a 30,000 mile car; I'm told it was in a junkyard by the time it was 10 years old.

Attach file:



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177_5783fdb227493.jpg 1500X1125 px

jpg  (224.01 KB)
177_5783fe95f2f72.jpg 1500X1125 px

Posted on: 2016/7/11 15:12
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Re: 1956 Carribbean Convertible 5699-1001
#40
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BigKev
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WOW! What lake did they salvage that from!

Posted on: 2016/7/11 15:18
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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