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1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#1
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

bob hattler
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We just completed voltage, fuel and spark checks: all good.
we completed a compression check and found very low numbers 0 to 25 psi. This difficult to understand as car was driven into the garage for a new starter solenoid and a carb float check.
Prior to this time the car ran very strong and there were no indications of a compression problem.
When attempting to start I used starter fluid and had a backfire. Any connection I don't see it.

Could the timing have changed?

Help

Bob Hattler

Posted on: 2017/1/5 16:24
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#2
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

SaddleRider
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Quote:

GENERAL LEE wrote:..... the car ran very strong and there were no indications of a compression problem.
When attempting to start I used starter fluid and had a backfire. Any connection I don't see it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You would not be the first one who damaged or ruined a recalcitrant internal combustion engine with starter fluid.

I can give you any number of potential horror stories as to what may have happened - anywhere from blowing loose some carbon that is temporarily lodged under a couple of valves, to cracking a ring, breaking a ring-land, or even "holing" a piston.

By the early 1930's, American autos were pretty durn reliable, hot or cold. Might take a bit of cranking on a very VERY cold morning, but ANY car of that era was properly designed to start NOW. WIth today's "high volatility fuels, the various "back-yard remedies" of the old days should be completely unnecessary.

Simple fact is, years of neglect, combined with poor maintainence (how many folks these days know how to properly gap a plug, set timing, go thru a carbuerator...etc...etc.) will turn ANY car into little more than "lawn-art" .

I would try and get the thing running, possibly a rolling "push start"..? Temporarily running 12 volts thru the starter ? And drive it around for a while; see if you cant blow out whatever is between the valve seats and the valves. If you are very lucky, that's all you need to do. My best wishes for you. The alternative will be time-consuming and expensive !

Posted on: 2017/1/5 16:38
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#3
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Owen_Dyneto
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With all cylinders having compression between 0 and 25 psi, it's unlikely it will start under any reasonable set of conditions. My next steop would be to check the valve function and timing.

Posted on: 2017/1/5 16:47
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#4
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HH56
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One thing some have run into is varnished up valve stems causing sticking valves which came on suddenly after burning old fuel. As some will attest, it can happen overnight having said they drove and parked the car and then went to start it in the next day or so and had symptoms similar to yours. Since your car was running -- I assume with fresh fuel in the relatively recent past -- valve sticking is less likely but still something to be considered.

I would remove one of the valve covers to observe the valves and verify they are moving. If you see some stuck then more would be suspect. If you find them moving then it would be a matter of seeing if something has happened to the timing.

If the timing has jumped I would think it would be possible to verify that by checking the ignition timing. Since the distributor is driven off the camshaft, if the spark timing is found to be out of spec the valve timing would be suspect too.

Posted on: 2017/1/5 16:48
Howard
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#5
Home away from home
Home away from home

fredkanter
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When was the last driven, yesterday or 15 years ago? I doubt that whatever caused the low compression happened overnight, long term storage can result in stuck valves which sound like what you have.

I've used starting fluid for 50+ years on everything from lawn mowers to trucks and never damaged anything. If some carbon broke loose I doubt it would affect all 8 cylinders.

To see if the valves are sticking, remove one valve cover, crank the engine and see how they are actuating.

Of course it always could be the Treadle Vac (joke)

Posted on: 2017/1/5 16:48
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#6
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

bob hattler
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2014/02/07 51276 miles rebuild engine
new plugs, wires, ignition, rotor, carburetor
2015/12/22 new solenoid check carb float. miles 55642

I drive all my cars no trailer queens.

The reason for repairs is that the solenoid was dropping the voltage so low it was hard to start. However; it did start.

That is what's so confusing. As you can imagine, all of my work and money may be for naught.

I don't think a car that I routinely drive at 65 MPH would be sludged up. The oil is clean and fresh.

Thanks for your input but it looks like a tear down may be needed.

Bob

Posted on: 2017/1/5 18:21
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#7
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Kansasboy
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I would like to ask one question, did the mechanic
open the throttle wide when checking the compression?

Posted on: 2017/1/5 18:56
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#8
Home away from home
Home away from home

fredkanter
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A common cause of sticking valves is old varnish smelling gas. Its gumminess sticks the valves in the guides

Posted on: 2017/1/5 19:12
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#9
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

bob hattler
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I think the backfire broke the timing chain. What else is there. Looks like $$$$.
Bob

Posted on: 2017/1/5 20:31
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Re: 1940 Packard 1801 won't start
#10
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Kansasboy
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I don't think the compression would be even across all
cylinders if timing chain was broken. Also some cylinders would be burping back into the intake manifold.
Also no spark if cam isn't turning.

Posted on: 2017/1/5 20:51
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