Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Your observations are not consistent. In your earlier post, you tell us the vibration is at 20, "becomes unnoticeable at 50".

In a later post you tell us it is a "mild shake" that "continues to increase with rpm".

Your second observation is more consistent with an out-of-balance/alignment condition that could be anywhere from the "nose to the tail" of your engine-clutch-drive-line.

Given the discrepancies in your observations, I cannot help you.

There is nothing to be embarssed about in not being an "expert" about diagnosing mechanical disorders. All of us have some area in life experiences where we are ignorant of what to do. NO shame in that!

I STRONGLY recommend you transport your vehicle to a restoration shop that has a HISTORY AND REPUTATION for solving malfunction vibration issues with pre-war Packards. They are out there. If you would tell us where you are located, we may be able to give you some suggestions.

There is no need to find a shop familiar with this type of problem on Packards, these problems can occur on a Crosley or Cunningham.

Always hard to explain things using only words, as I am of Italian decent I usually use body and hand language. I thought I explained it as , when engine starts it is smooth when driving down the road it is good until 20 mph, then the vibration starts and gets more violent, then at 50 on up it is not noticeable. On a latter post I was responding to the comments about drive line issues, so I thought I should test it without driving it, I went out and started the car and did not drive it down the road. I let it warm up and after it was warm I started to wind it up slowly, the shaking started at approx 1000 rpm and continued on up to the point that I thought I should not risk the engine coming apart. It is likely that the engine is shaking at 50 mph and that a combination of engine load, wind noise and tire rotational feedback is keeping me from feeling it. I will start over on my tuneup and give it a compression test, try and remember how to use my Summer oscilloscope, check wires, not sure how to check and see if it is carburation( borrow a carb) then it looks like more complexity

AH - NOW we are getting somewhere.

Seems you have ruled out un-even firing.

You are now telling us that you found that revving the motor up caused you to fear it might be damaged from the shaking. You clearly have some kind of motor balance/alignment problem.

You indicate you do not have any receipts to show us what shop did what work on what assemblies or sub-assemblies. Not good.

I would "drop" the oil pan to see if the counter-weights were in their proper places - maybe someone, recognizing that they have to come off to properly grind a pre-war Packard crank-shaft, messed up something there? (lack-of-balance of the rotating mass of the engine (weight of pistons, rods, etc...if off, would certainly cause vibration, but not as severe as you are now describing)

If all looks well, I would "drop" the transmission, checking the trans. input shaft & flywheel "pilot" bearing for possible "out of round" conditions that could throw the clutch disc "off center". Then check the clutch disc, plate, and flywheel for alighment and balance (I have seen people butcher these assemblies so completely that they are way off center).

To isolate the transmission, run the engine, depress the clutch and rev up. If the condition persists then you can rule out the transmission.

On the counterweights, I don't understand how you can "see" if they're a problem.

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I feel so sorry for the guy - he obviously is not getting what he is entitled to out of that car.

As you point out, depressing the clutch would isolate the transmission and clutch disc.

Wouldn't resolve the question as to what may have been fouled up on either the clutch plate or flywheel.

Sad to report I have seen more than one Packard crankshaft butchered / ruined by well-meaning but mis-informed machine shops. A "pounded out" crankshaft on a "Senior" Packard is not that unusual - overly worn out rod bearings, coupled with all manner of abuse, will do that.

Obviously, new connecting rod bearings cannot be fitted; are of no use unless the crankshaft journal is restored to "at spec" for roundness.

As you are aware, "Senior" Packard crankshafts (both EIGHT, SUPER EIGHT and TWELVE have huge counter-weights fastened with #8 bolts - these bolts must be ground out to get the counter-weights off the shaft. Because the counter-weights are so huge, over-lapping a portion of the crankshaft "journal" today's crank grinders cant get in to re-surface the journal until those counter-weights are removed. A visual inspection would, as you infer, would only disclose the most obvious "butchering".

Yeah - this guy's symptoms, not that he is being clear, dosnt sound good - now that we have a more accurate description of the symtoms, I cannot recommend driving that thing at all until this is resolved.

I have a bad feeling this will not be resolved without a complete tear-down and re-balancing of all of the engine's components. Wish I had better news.

It frankly infuriates me when I hear about a Packard of ANY series that dosnt deliver what Packard cars are so famous for...(again, if they havnt been brutalized.)

-off-topic-

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Keith (PackardV8), is this evidenced or an assumption? Often ignition cables touch each other, regardless whether metal or plastic-covered. The attached pic shows the even rail-guided ZIS-system, cribbed from Packard. I think, the problem starts when the ignition cables begin to crumble. Once I have learned that the cables can be measured. The upper limit revolves around 25kΩ.


source
pic 2 & 3: oldtimer-tv.com

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I realise that this is getting a bit basic, but I would check that the firing order is correct, i.e that the plug wires are going to the correct plug. It is easy to connect them incorrectly. It would also cause the engine to run like a dog at all speeds with a lot of vibration. PT

Can someone please explain how cross wiring two cylinders could result in ZERO compression in some cylinders. Zero or low (25#) compression is ONLY a mechanical issue.

Fred,
Since I did the very same thing a couple of days ago,
I think you may have mixed two separate threads.
Bob has the 14th series with no compression,michael=
Twelve has 38 super with an engine vibration.