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Motor rebuild questions
#1
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Mike Bartrom
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I'm looking into the motor rebuild for my boat tail speedster project. I am experienced with rebuilding GM Ford and even a 56 Chrysler Hemi... but nothing quite as old as the straight 8 in my 30 Packard

I have several questions:

Can you get modern bearings for the mains and rods?

Can you get modern seals, rings, pistons?

I'm sure that hardened exhaust valve seats can be installed in this motor... what about valve guides?

How about using a thermostat for the cooling system (vs. shutters)?

Anyone have an insight into converting the points ignition to electronic?

Can my existing transmission get syncros added?

Are the original style driveshaft u-joints reliable?

Posted on: 2017/3/21 8:19
1930 boat tail speedster
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#2
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Mr.Pushbutton
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Can you get modern bearings for the mains and rods?

This is a Babbit bearing engine. Some Packard engines have been retro-fitted for modern insert bearing, using off-the-shelf Big 3 insert bearings, but I am not aware of anyone doing this for the 7th series engines.

Can you get modern seals, rings, pistons?

You can get pistons from Egge, some have had good experiences with these, others--not so much. I know restorers who use pistons by other known custom (racing) piston suppliers, made to order. Nothing is cheap in these engines. Rings are available, Olsen's has

I'm sure that hardened exhaust valve seats can be installed in this motor... what about valve guides?

yes and yes.

How about using a thermostat for the cooling system (vs. shutters)?

Don't. Nothing in your engine was designed for a block thermostat, and expansion rates and machine fits are designed around this.

Anyone have an insight into converting the points ignition to electronic?

Don't do this. Get the retrofit plate that is sold through the Classic Car Club of America, it is a new distributor plate that takes commonly available ignition point sets (around $10/set) from NAPA. Your car will run forever, just fine on the first two sets you buy (dual points)

Can my existing transmission get syncros added?

Not easily or cheaply.

Are the original style driveshaft u-joints reliable?

Yes! it is a Packard.


Having said all of the above, I will have to say this, again: This engine is nothing like anything you might have worked on before. This doesn't make it wrong, it is just different. I have seen these engines and cars boojed up by people who "are small block Chevy experts, built hundreds of them" (or any other common engine that parts are readily available for) You have to come to this engine the way it is, the way it was built, you can't ask it to conform to what you already know and try to adapt it into something that you know. You have to approach it for what it is, the way it is. A big part of this is reading: Look up the owner's manual on this website, and read the section on the engine completely. Back then an owner's manual was a mini shop manual, and there is much wisdom in its pages. You have to take all of your accumulated knowledge and hang it on a hook, like a hat, and start over as though you know nothing, and learn how this engine is built and meant to work.

Posted on: 2017/3/21 10:14
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#3
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Owen_Dyneto
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I've been thru several similar engines so let me add a bit to Mr. Pushbutton's excellent advice. For your poured main and rod bearings, consider Paul's Rod & Bearing, that's the shop that most of the major rebuilders of this type of engine go to. If the journals are in good condition but undersized, no problem - just give Paul the diameter and he sizes to your dimensions. And if the crank journals need turning, note that you'll need to mill out the fasteners and then remove the counterweights, and then bolt them back on and rebalance the shaft after the journals are turned. And note, if you intend to drive this car aggressively, remember - high revs and heat aren't friends of poured bearings on long-stroke engines.

Egge's issues with pistons seem to be many years behind us now, lot's of happy users of Egge pistons and valves. And yes, they also have the springs and guides.

There was a 4-speed synchro (on the top 2 gears) available in 1931 and used partway into 1932. Don't know if you'd be able to find one but some folks have changed these out for the new 3-speed synchro introduced in 1932 so you might find one laying idle somewhere. Like it's non-synchro twin 1st gear is so low you'll only need it when moving a house.

Posted on: 2017/3/21 12:01
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#4
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Rusty O\'Toole
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The bearings are poured babbitt. If the journals are good and the bearings are good best leave them alone. If the journals are good the bearings can be scraped and shimmed to a like new fit. I hope some babbitt bearing experts will chime in. Last I heard new poured bearings cost $200 apiece and you have 13 or more.

On old motors valve guides are replaceable. In pre 1955 motors it is common that they came with exhaust valve seat inserts, although I do not know what Packard's policy was, you likely have them. They can be reground smooth and are good as new.

If you are converting to 12 volt negative ground you can use an MSD ignition box with your points and they will last forever. Just check for wear and adjust gap if necessary every 10000 miles. A Ford thick film ignition module will do the same thing and is smaller.

Synchros should not be necessary if you know how to shift gears. It is not a hard knack to learn. The trick is to match the engine's speed to the car's speed and the gears will mesh perfect. Or just shift slowly and it won't matter.

Later... am informed by Owen Dyneto that Packards did not use valve seat inserts.

Posted on: 2017/3/21 17:07
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#5
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Mike Bartrom
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Thanks guys for the info... I know now that I have a lot to learn. I have read the manual and will study more next time through.

I used Egge pistons in my Hemi build a few years ago. They were quality slugs.

I'm talking with Troy at Michiana Packard about helping me out.

Posted on: 2017/3/21 17:16
1930 boat tail speedster
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#6
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Mr.Pushbutton
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One guy I would definitely involve in this project is Ed Baker at Baker Engines in Fort Wayne. He knows these engines (any engine, really) but he has done a lot of these. We drove a Lycoming 8 from the Detroit area to Fort Wayne to have Ed do all of the machining.

Posted on: 2017/3/22 7:59
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#7
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Mike Bartrom
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Hey Mr Pushbutton... what is Ed's contact info?
I did a quick google search and didn't find it

For my Hemi build C&P in Ft Wayne did the machining

Thanks!

Mike

Posted on: 2017/3/22 9:28
1930 boat tail speedster
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#8
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Mike Bartrom
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Ok guys here is more questions about my motor that will be an easy to answer...

Does the crank shaft have oil passages to provide pressurized lubrication to the main and rod bearings?

Does the cam bearings get pressurized oil?

How are the lifters lubricated?

Thanks Mike

Posted on: 2017/3/23 11:05
1930 boat tail speedster
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#9
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Owen_Dyneto
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It is a full pressure oiling system, including to the wrist pins. The cam follower rollers and pivot arms are pressure fed and of course the cam bearings.

Posted on: 2017/3/23 11:31
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Re: Motor rebuild questions
#10
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Mike Bartrom
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Thanks Owen!

Engineering of these Packards is truly amazing!

Posted on: 2017/3/24 15:30
1930 boat tail speedster
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