Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I don't know how the dual gauge sender works so no definite answer on that. You might inquire and see if you can get some more info on how or if things are separated. With a single electrical terminal it does not seem like it would be.

What I can say is that the King-Seeley gauge Packard uses needs the same ohm ranges as some Ford and Chrysler products used which is around 73 ohms when engine is cold and approx 10 ohms when overly hot to make the gauge read at the C and H marks.

Most modern universal type gauges use a modern S-W spec and need approx 240 ohms and 33 at the same points and being the sender is S-W, I would guess that is the range you will be working with. The Packard gauge will not work with those values and if the Westach uses the S-W range it will not work with the Packard sender. To make sure both gauges work and are accurate I believe you will need the second gauge and sender to be totally separate.

Some have added a Tee at the original sender location to add a second sender and others have done a compact street Tee at the heater hose outlet on the head but both of those have drawbacks. If a Tee is installed at the original location neither sender will have access to continually circulating water and if done at the heater hose location, will only be accurate when heater valve is open and water flow is going thru the heater. Don't remember the thread size for a 54 at the regular place but the heater port is 3/8 and might need additional adapters for most senders.

One way around this is to place the sender at the radiator hose outlet. There are some aftermarket adapters which are for placing a fan switch in the hose and the sender could go there instead. I was not able to find one for the large size hose Packard uses when I looked a few years ago so I made my own adapter out of 1" aluminum to fit under the outlet and hold a mechanical gauge sensor. The same thing could be used for an electric sender and while there is a downside of a short period of no water circulation it would still feel the water under the thermostat. As soon as the thermostat opens flow to the radiator the sender would get an accurate water sample.

Here are a couple of photos of the adapter I made and a link to a thread where a poster measured the specific ohms the Packard sender provides at various temp readings.https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=165532#forumpost165532

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Thanks Howard. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

TC

Hi Howard. I hope you don't mind me asking as you have been great help so far. My headlights just went out. The dash, turn and driving lights still work fine. The wiring to the headlights is pretty crumbly. I have replacements. The junction boxes look decrepit but all has worked up until now. Other forums have mentioned the headlight circuit breaker switch and the dimmer switch. I have both new. FYI, I had 6V LED headlights with no resistor in there until boom. Back to the normal lights now. Where is the location of the headlight circuit breaker switch for me to replace? I have BigKev's wiring diagrams. Would it be possible for you to shoot me a road map to the circuit breaker switch? Also, parts X-Refs would be great for the switches if this happens again. Your help is greatly appreciated.

TC

The circuit breaker is a small rectangular box at the end of the headlight switch but it is odd for the lights to go completely off and stay off since the breaker is self resetting. Normally the breaker will trip and after a few seconds lights come back on only to go off again and have the cycle repeat until the headlight switch is turned off.

The turn signals are separately fused so they will not be affected. Not sure what you are calling driving lights but dash and parking lights are also powered off the headlight breaker so should be affected as well. If dash lights are still on when headlights are off then I would concentrate on a burned or broken/disconnected wire or a bad dimmer switch. If the dash and headlights are both turning on and off then look for a shorted wire or possibly the breaker is just suffering from old age and has lost capacity. That has been known to happen.

If you need a breaker they can usually be found at Napa or other parts stores. 30 amp, stud mount, type I self resetting. If you can only find the breakers with an extra mounting flange, the flange would possibly need to bend down or be removed to properly mount the breaker onto the headlight switch so the battery terminal will be in the correct spot on the switch.

Here is the 51-6 switch. Electrically the switches are all the same with identical terminals. The only difference is in the threads at the short base section and diameter of the shaft which determines the way the switch mounts to the dash and how the knobs attach.

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Hi Howard. Thank you for your response. Dash lights and parking lights are on. Headlights are out. I will start with the dimmer switch and disconnected wires. I did yank a wire out right before this happened. One end was a thin red wire in the vicinity of the headlight switch and another thin black wire connected to nothing. The 2 wires converged in one wire that tapered wider and had electric tape wrapped around the end. The tapered wire looked like an old bell telephone house phone wire. When I cut it, there were 2 thin blue wires in there. I thought it was an old gauge light insert. Did I yank the headlight wire? The wires are a real tiny gauge. Also, how do I remove the headlight switch to change the breaker?

TC

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The wire not being stock, no idea what it might be used for. Stock would be a single gray wire connected to the switch headlight terminal. That wire goes to the dimmer switch and from there two wires -- tan and light green -- go to the headlight junction block on the L fender where they each join with the two wires going on to the headlights for hi and lo beam. A second light green wire will also go from the dimmer switch back to the dash for the bright indicator light.

If the lights work in one position of the dimmer switch but not the other suspect a shorted or broken wire between the dimmer and headlights or dash bright light indicator. If it acts up in both then suspect the same between the headlight sw and dimmer switch or a bad dimmer sw.

To remove the headlight switch remove the knob using an allen wrench in the setscrew and when knob is off unscrew the bezel using the two slots near the shaft. Sometimes the bezel will be loose enough to unscrew by hand. Some have used a screwdriver on the slot on one side or channel lock pliers with the jaws wrapped with tape but there is danger of slipping and scratching the dash with either of those.

There was a special tool for the job that I believe resembled a screwdriver with a hollow middle that slipped over the shaft and had two flat prongs on the end that went in the slots. Packard Newbie made a version of another factory tool used on some earlier bezels for his 39 light switch. If you made a similar tool with the correct spacing for the slots in the 54 bezel it would make the job much easier and avoid scratching the dash.

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I'm on it. Many thanks !

TC

Hi Howard,

I went the route of changing the dimmer switch. I removed the highly crusted original Delco-Remy switch. I had 2 x NAPA DS102's and one new from a vendor. Alas, no go. All lights work except the head lights still. You mentioned a green wire from the headlight switch. I attached a photo of the green wire coming from the direction of the headlight switch with a fuse on it. Could this be the problem? What kind of fuse is it? and how do I open it? Would I still have to change the headlight switch circuit breaker if all the other lights work except the headlights?

TC

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The only dark green wire coming from the headlight switch should be going to a light on the ign switch. When the headlight switch is pulled out 1 notch and parking lights are on a small glow also comes from the ign switch to better find the key slot at night. Normally there would be no fuse involved in that wire as it would be protected by the headlight breaker. If that is the wire in question then no clue what the fuse is for. The fuse could be for some kind of accessory not shown on the main wiring diagram so to know for sure where it goes you will need to trace the wire.

On the dimmer switch, other than the light green wires for high beam, I cannot distinguish between the other colors on the photo. When the headlight switch is at the second notch there should be power at the gray wire and then depending on which position the dimmer switch is in that power is fed out to either the tan wire or the light green wires to light the bulbs on low or hi beam.

I would use a meter and determine if you have power at the gray wire. If you can find a terminal marking on the switch, the gray wire should be on the common terminal. Sometimes the common terminal is labeled SW or B or C or maybe a number 3 or just positioned slightly offset from the other two terminals. If no power at the wire, the problem is at the headlight switch or between the headlight sw and dimmer switch. If you do have power at the gray wire then somehow the dimmer switch is still bad or miswired. There is always a possibility of a broken wire after the dimmer switch but for both hi and low beams to be affected there should be some visible damage.

As long as you have dash lights and parking lights, the circuit breaker should be working. It still might not be capable of carrying the current needed for the headlights without tripping but the symptom would be a cycle of all lights on for a few seconds then off then back on after a few more seconds.

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Hi Howard. All set now. Thank you for your advice. Turns out I did pull the headlight wire off the headlight switch. I accessed by removing the ash tray on the left of the steering column. Turns out the original dimmer switch was ok. I did replace the headlight wire harness and socket and the headlight junction boxes as well. Only thing now is the high beam indicator light on dash is toast now. Probably time for me to stop messing around with the wires.

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