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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#21
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HH56
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I don't currently have a functioning Lehigh factory system but did have one until the valves in the compressor went out. Could probably answer any questions if there is something specific you were curious about.

Picked up another fact AC to install in my current car but it had a hacked up modulator valve so was never functional. I have that one on the shelf but copied and made a complete new enclosure and ducts so I could make a new system with modern components and operation. New AC housed in an original looking enclosure with original looking ducts. Sanden compressor on that one.

Lehigh ompressor valves and gaskets seem to be non existent but would be nice if someone reproduced them. Such a simple item that could most likely be cut on a laser or water jet but probably not enough demand to make it feasible. Original modulator valve is another issue. There are some commercial refrig units that still use them and might be possible to adapt something but it wouldn't look stock.

The MkV setup would surely be period correct but still aftermarket. Biggest issue with that particular unit I believe is the size and the fact it needs to be far enough back or down so the glove box will open. The tunnel limits the mounting quite a bit.

Posted on: 2018/3/9 12:39
Howard
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#22
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Mr.Pushbutton
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How did your Lehigh system work, when it worked?
You know that they were primarily in the business of making refrigeration systems for Deli-style showcase coolers. Why Packard just didn't buy Harrison GM systems, with the cylindrical three piston compressor I'll never know. They already had a business relationship on starters, generators,distributors, voltage regulators, carburetors, Guide lighting units-etc.
BTW-I'm in the parts replication business these days for my employer, and do a lot of laser cut parts through an excellent vendor. If you wanted to do a short run I could facilitate the bid-ness end of that.

Posted on: 2018/3/9 14:31
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#23
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Packard Don
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I have one of these systems uninstalled for my 1956 and it is my understanding that the compressor was made by Lehigh but that it was not a Lehigh system as such. I spoke with a shop a while back about rebuilding the compressor and other components to handle the modern refrigerant and they did not seem to think it would be an issue.

Posted on: 2018/3/9 14:40
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#24
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...You know that they were primarily in the business of making refrigeration systems for Deli-style showcase coolers

A lot more than that, John. In our chemical processing plant we had many Lehigh "Blue Cold" industrial refrigeration systems, some up to 20 hp. I've also seen large Lehigh units on board ships for regrigerated storage spaces.

Posted on: 2018/3/9 14:55
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#25
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HH56
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Believe the 55-6 AC was engineered by Packard in house and was really an accomplishment when you consider they did it in a way so as not to require any major changes to the car. Other thru dash systems at the time were comparatively bulky and new firewall stampings would most likely have been needed had they adapted the Harrison or even the Nash system. All Packard had to do to the stock firewall and dash was cut 4 relatively small holes in the existing sheetmetal and bolt the system in. Dealers could install a system in the field. Of course you can forget about accessing anything easily when working under the dash when AC was in the car. For anyone curious on the AC unit details there is a dealer field install manual on site.https://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/55-56ACInstall.pdf

The system worked very well. When AC was turned on the compressor energized and stayed on. The only operator adjustment was the blower speed. Temp regulation was fixed using the hot gas bypass method controlled by the modulator valve. The modulator valve was adjustable but not by the operator and was usually set to keep the evaporator in a range right around 40 degrees. It is a huge evaporator coil and ice cold air would come from the dash top vents and could also come out the floor opening if the heater door was opened. Heated air could also come out the dash vents in winter if desired so in effect it was a true bi-level system. On high there was a decent amount of air flow from the dash vents that does skim the roof line and reach the back seats -- although by the time it gets there it is obviously more of a small disturbance than a real feeling of air blowing. The vent angle can raise or lower slightly to somewhat direct air up/down and there was a lever operated set of louvers in the vents to direct side to side. When it got too cold you could turn the blower speed down and you could even start the heater and have it run at the same time mixing hot and cold air if you wanted more temp variation.

Return air uses the Left side knee air vent. The vent control knob is modified so the air flapper on the left can then go three positions like the right heater side. By varying the knob you can close or admit outside air to the AC system as well as recirculate inside air or not.

Posted on: 2018/3/9 16:37
Howard
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#26
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19482255
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Thanks for the details and the great information on the 54,55, and 56 models

I agree, getting my 48 roadworthy so I may enjoy the car as Packard originally intended is my first priority. I don't wish to buy another Packard at all until the 48 is hitting the pavement.

My first car was a '51 Plymouth Cranbrook club coupe. A bare-bones vintage ride from the KT Keller era of fashion austerity for Chrysler. But I remember driving that car was never a problem with manual steering, especially when the car was moving. So your point about not missing power steering is well taken

And yet, I was living in a small town in the Midwest at the time, so there wasn't a ton of parallel parking to do. Living in Los Angeles is another story, and I have been sincerely glad to have power steering on more than one occasion in some of my other cars. Probably the biggest headache of manual steering is having a larger number of turns, lock-to-lock than power. But I will have to consider it.

Seems there are a lot of details to understand between the 54's, 55's and 56 models, especially when it comes to AC. Glad you brought up the 6V AC systems issue vs. the 12V. I hadn't considered that!



I didn't know who made the AC components for the Packard systems, so I'm happy to learn who supplied them.

for the recommendation of the Packard Gold Portfolio book. Glad to say I think I have a copy knocking around here somewhere. You've piqued my interest to go grab it and read what they have to say.

Posted on: 2018/3/11 4:21
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#27
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Leeedy
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Quote:

MrPushbutton wrote:
Does anyone in this esteemed group own a '55-'56 Packard with a functional Lehigh air conditioning system?
I know that the stunning '56 Patrician that Robert Fordyce restored in the early 2000s was running, but I can't say I have known a lot of people with cars having this system in service.
My thought these days is that the Classic air system, with the Sanden compressor and Mark V style box on the trans hump for the evaporator core and fan is probably a good way to go if you start with a (more plentiful) non-AC equipped car.


I have ridden in several V8 Packards over the years with functioning factory air conditioning systems. I had two that functioned and one that didn't courtesy of a broken fitting at the base of the firewall.

And yes, I've seen Lehigh compressors on all manner of commercial refrigerated equipment and cases. A very sturdy piece...at least for its day.

As for the reason Packard didn't stick with Frigidaire, this was simple. Jim Nance knew that rear air systems were absurdly inefficient and he wanted cutting edge stuff only on the new Packards. A nice as Cadillacs were at the time, the rear air system with vents mounted blowing forward over the rear seat (even and especially in the convertible) were ridiculous.

Everything about the new V8 Packards was moving to cutting edge technology and state-of-the-art. Frigidaire was hanging onto a system that could be adapted to a bunch of different cars and sold in a fairly standardized package. For instance even the Frigidaire brochure was almost the same for Oldsmobile as it was for Packard. That strategy just didn't pan out for what Packard wanted and frankly, for what the industry ultimately wanted. Only a theater-format (front-to-rear) air system was logical for optimum cooling and for the future.

When Packard's V8 factory air system was working, it was magnificent and yes, was fully capable of allowing a modern mix system in the system of cool and hot air... much like systems that followed decades later and even today.

As for having one functioning today, the nature of factory air-ANY factory air unit-not just Packard is that the older they get, the less likely they are functioning. Seals go, valves go and charges go. Eventually many people driving these cars give up and quit servicing them.

Of course to have one of the V8 Packard factory air units functioning today there are other matters aside from parts. For instance using R-134 rather than R-12 freon and other possible issues.

I have installed several V8 factory air units in Packards that did not orgiinally have them and I would not hesitate to install another. As long as one can find the proper parts, this is a very bullet-proof system. And remember, while little Japanese Sanden units may work, they were never designed and engineered to do the kind of duty required to pump a comparatively huge Packard V-8 factory air conditioning system.

Posted on: 2018/3/11 10:13
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#28
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HH56
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Leeedy, do you have any information on whether Packard designed in house or just bought the air vents from another application or why they have Modern Aire cast into them? I don't think I have ever seen Modern Aire used in any Packard literature or advertisements and was just wondering if the vents might have been third party or a generic commodity.

Posted on: 2018/3/11 10:22
Howard
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Re: Random questions about 51-56's, Ultramatics and A/C
#29
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Leeedy
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Leeedy, do you have any information on whether Packard designed in house or just bought the air vents from another application or why they have Modern Aire cast into them? I don't think I have ever seen Modern Aire used in any Packard literature or advertisements and was just wondering if the vents might have been third party or a generic commodity.


Hello... as far as I know, the V-8 Packard factory air system was designed jn-house with assistance from at least one Creative Industries engineer and other out-sourced air conditioning engineers. It was intended to be the creme-de-la-creme of factory automotive A/C systems.

Also as far as I know.. and according to everyone I interviewed about the factory A/C system for V-8s, "Modern Aire" was a Packard idea and name, not something strictly adapted. It was intended to look and sound cooler (pardon the pun) than the former 1954 "Frigidaire" name ... which, after all, was GM. Now Jim Nance thought that Frigidaire's system was antiquated and ineffective. So. Doesn't "Modern Aire" sound more up to date-at least for a mid-50s mentality???

The logo was just one of several that were trying to call attention to brand-new ideas and systems . Everything had to have a name. There were several such names and logos dreamed up for other things such as the Torsion-Level suspension and other features. But as the money wore down, so did the frivolity.

Posted on: 2018/3/13 18:59
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