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Re: VIN verifications in California
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15705
Don, given your interest in vehicle numbers and that you might have missed it when I posted it earlier, perhaps you'll find the attached document interesting, it's an example of prewar Packard documentation identifying key number locations. It's from Packard's "MISC" series of blue prints which include all manner of interesting information including things like engine and transmission assembly notes and specifications.

Attach file:


pdf 34 number locations s.pdf Size: 396.17 KB; Hits: 56

Posted on: 2018/9/17 20:24
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/1/10 19:12
From Deee-troit
Posts: 1138
I'm surprised that they are having a hard time accepting the fact that the ID tag is fastened to the car with screws. Chrysler products have done this for decades, including the muscle car era, when things get very expensive and there is desire to make counterfeit "muscle cars" from more pedestrian offerings.

Posted on: 2018/9/18 8:25
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 1362
OD, thank you for the reminder! I’ve seen it in the past but forgot about it until now so will save a copy on my iPad for offline reference as much of my work is in rural areas without any sort of Internet connection,

Posted on: 2018/9/18 14:16
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Packard / IMPERIAL page
CA DMV Licensed Vehicle VIN Verification
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Just popping in
Joined:
7/26 6:21:48
From Brandon
Posts: 5
What is the best way to request past owner information on my 1941 Packard which was originally sold in Beverly Hills? I just want document past owners in CA. I have the original Data Plate showing engine number and Packard Beverly Hills stamp.

Posted on: 11/11 5:53:24
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15399
Don may be able to give more specific details but I think you will be out of luck getting anything from the state which would be about the only way to track ownership. Without state records, the only way to trace previous owners will be if you have word of mouth or some kind of unofficial paper trail from somewhere else. Unknown if anyone has any of the dealership records from that specific dealer but I expect those would only provide the first owner.

As to the state, California drops vehicles out of the system if they have not been continually registered for, I think, 5 years. If it has been longer than that since being registered in Calif there will be no records. Even if the car is still in the system, due to an actress being stalked and murdered a few years ago by someone who found her address thru DMV, after that happened there was a state law enacted that prohibits DMV from sharing any info with someone other than need to know law enforcement thru a special computer hookup or a warrant.

Posted on: 11/11 8:06:21
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Howard
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 606
Quote:

MrPushbutton wrote:
I'm surprised that they are having a hard time accepting the fact that the ID tag is fastened to the car with screws. Chrysler products have done this for decades, including the muscle car era, when things get very expensive and there is desire to make counterfeit "muscle cars" from more pedestrian offerings.


Yes. GM did this too.

My triple-black and loaded 1966 Cadillac Eldorado convertible (I'm second owner from new) was stolen years ago and I believe the serial number was changed. I also believe it was "sold" with changed numbers through one of the "honest" auction companies in Scottsdale.

The VIN tags on these cars were plastic and attached with two Phillips-head screws in the rear of the driver's door jamb. So easy to fake that the plates can be ordered and any number you choose put on them!

By the way, the car is still missing. The VIN# is E6112046. California license was 063 TZV. I bought it from a doctor who bought the car new from Hillcrest Cadillac in Beverly Hills. I bought it from him in the early 1970s. It had every option available except limited-clip rear end.

Posted on: 11/11 8:18:36
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 606
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Don may be able to give more specific details but I think you will be out of luck getting anything from the state which would be about the only way to track ownership. Without state records, the only way to trace previous owners will be if you have word of mouth or some kind of unofficial paper trail from somewhere else. Unknown if anyone has any of the dealership records from that specific dealer but I expect those would only provide the first owner.

As to the state, California drops vehicles out of the system if they have not been continually registered for, I think, 5 years. If it has been longer than that since being registered in Calif there will be no records. Even if the car is still in the system, due to an actress being stalked and murdered a few years ago by someone who found her address thru DMV, after that happened there was a state law enacted that prohibits DMV from sharing any info with someone other than need to know law enforcement thru a special computer hookup or a warrant.


Yes, exactly right. State of California has too many cars to keep up with. They drop out of the system after so many years. This is a good thing... and it is a bad thing. If the records are purged, stolen cars can sometimes be re-registered by bad guys and appear to be legal. DMV acts as if they never heard of the car.

And yes, an actress was stalked and murdered by someone tracing her via DMV records, so that put an end to tracking by anyone but law enforcement.

Of course I have discovered if one has a paper trail such as old service records or old registrations, those papers have addresses. Many things are still possible via writing letters the old-fashioned way.

Posted on: 11/11 8:31:34
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10244
G'day foodprotector,
to PackardInfo. If a previous owner of your '41 was a member of PAC or PI it's possible they recorded details with a Roster Keeper who may be able to help.

Irrespective of that, I invite you to include your '41 Packard in the Packard Owner's Registry.

Posted on: 11/11 11:53:21
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 1362
As Howard pointed out, such records do not exist. Even if the car had been registered constantly from new, the records would go back only so far as the DMV did not digitized early records as far as I know but even if they had, a VIN verifier has no access that is not available to anyone else.

On the 1966 Cadillac, as pointed out, the VIN plate was just a simple screw-on piece of plastic (my 1965 Fleetwood 60 Special is the same) but the VIN sometimes exists elsewhere as a “hidden VIN” but only law enforcement agencies are made privy to the locations. In fact, a VIN verifier is expressly forbidden from looking for it!

That said, for about a year, the verification of all vehicles in California required two VINs when many vintage cars have only one. I fought the DMV on that so the next reg31 VIN verification form revision changed and no longer required it for older vehicles before a certain year. The old form also required all 1966 and newer vehicles to have an emissions label when only 1966 California cars ever had it. Emission controls didn’t become nation wide until 1967, I believe.

Posted on: 11/11 12:05:34
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All generalities are false.

Packard / IMPERIAL page
CA DMV Licensed Vehicle VIN Verification
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Re: VIN verifications in California
Just popping in
Joined:
7/26 6:21:48
From Brandon
Posts: 5
My thanks to everyone who replied to my inquiry. Yes my car is in the PAC registry now the Assn did not have any info about it previously. I figured CA would have disposed of historical records especially back that far.
Really appreciate it team!

Posted on: 11/11 15:44:45
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