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burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/4/17 16:58
From Annapolis, MD
Posts: 5
We brought my 160 coupe home from the shop and next thing we knew smoke was coming from under the dash. We think the ammeter shorted out and burned up the wire supplying it with current. Fortunately the car did not burn up!!

Some questions, any help much appreciated:

-any sources for a replacement ammeter? The little window that the ammeter was visible in is now opaque- I think this is heat damage.
-will an ammeter from another 1941 Packard fit and work?
-can a shunt be installed to lessen the load going through the ammeter?

Any other suggestions would be very helpful. I have sent off for a shop manual(s) to help get the dashboard out so we can see the full extent of the damage. Hoping to get the car back on the road soon.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Posted on: 7/4 17:19:48
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15323
There were two 41 senior ammeters and difference is a bronze or a silver face. I believe the guts were the same for all even on the juniors except there were 5 different color faces used on those models.

Don't believe the shop manual is going to give you much guidance on dash removal but perhaps someone on the forum has done it and can help.

Posted on: 7/4 18:17:52
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Howard
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
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Joined:
2016/3/13 15:24
From Coalmont, B.C., Canada
Posts: 533
Hi Jim,

Sorry to hear about your ammeter woes. I am only weighing in here because I have replaced the ammeter in my '39 Junior car
recently and also, I have an extra ammeter that came out of a '41. Not sure if it would be any use to you as I believe it came from a 110/120, but if you're stuck, we could exchange a couple of pics and see if it would work. Also, removing your ammeter (again, if it's the same as the Junior cars) is quite simple and does not require removal of the dash, just the 2-gauge cluster that the ammeter is in (ammeter/gas gauge)
I would submit that if your wiring burned up, it was from some kind of short or ulterior wiring issue, as the ammeters in those cars are made to withstand significant amperage. Someone more knowledgeable than I will likely weigh in here and clarify this point, but, in my opinion, if the ammeter is functioning properly, there should be no need to install a shunt to step down the load. PM me if you get stuck on a replacement and I can give you more detail on the gauge I have. Good luck. Chris

Posted on: 7/4 19:44:35
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'If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!' Henry Ford

1939 Six, Model 1700

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/index.php?Action=view&ID=1823
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
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Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10187
G'day JimRosenthal,
to PackardInfo, and I invite you to include your '41 160 Coupe in the Packard Owner's Registry

Posted on: 7/4 20:47:20
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Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/4/17 16:58
From Annapolis, MD
Posts: 5
Thanks to all who commented!! I figured we would have to take it all apart because the window is now opaque and I will have to determine how to clean it or replace the glass or plastic. We'll look at it again. I may indeed need your extra ammeter, Chris- I'll call Merritt's today and see if they have one, if not, perhaps I can buy yours. First I have to see what we have in there. Also we need to check the charging system; someone pointed out it may be overcharging and that's why it burnt up. As to the shunt, sounds like it's not needed, but it would be good to know why this happened in the first place.

Posted on: 7/5 4:08:29
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
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Joined:
2015/1/16 9:43
From sw, pa
Posts: 928
I would almost think it would have to have a short in the wiring harness someplace after the amp meter. A resistance check should show if there is.

Posted on: 7/5 6:41:14
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/4/17 16:58
From Annapolis, MD
Posts: 5
I agree. There would have to be a short, and all that current would have to go through the ammeter to burn it up. Still trying to figure out how to get it out of there to see what happened.

Posted on: 7/5 6:47:51
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15323
The gauges are mounted in pairs to a mounting plate which screws to the cluster. I don't know how much congestion there is behind he dash on a 41 but in other cars all was accessed from behind -- generally with a bit of contortion and flexing of reluctant to bend joints required.

Here is a photo of the Clipper mounting and I believe the conventional body was essentially the same but because of the gauges being stacked on each end of the speedo, a vertical layout for the mounting plates.

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_1184.jpg (103.59 KB)
209_5d1f57082ac19.jpg 1280X798 px

Posted on: 7/5 6:58:32
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Howard
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/31 12:20
From Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1317
This may not help very much because it's from a '40 160 . . . I know the '41 dash seems very different . . .

but when I work under the dash, for which I know I will spend a few extra days in purgatory for, I first remove the bottom seat cushion. I place a 2 ft section of pipe insulation over the forward section of the seat frame to cushion my back with a pillow on top. I stick 2 old pillows against the firewall to cushion my head and help keep it propped up. I lie across the floor looking up at the underside of the dash. My feet go out the passenger door, or sometimes up with my legs against the upper seat cushion.

This works well dealing with the glove box area, wipers or center section items such as light switch.

Other items like the starter switch, I remove the center/radio cover panel by pulling out the ashtray to access the nuts holding it on in its upper corners. I pull off the radio knobs and unscrew the radio retaining nuts. I push the radio toward the firewall and up. Then I can see the front row switches.

Trying to access the backside of the instrument panel from underneath is more of a challenge because of the steering wheel, column, and support being in the road, not to mention the brake and clutch pedal behind your head.

Coming home from my recent trip, the gas gauge needle was bouncing. Yesterday I inspected for a short, got my fingers on the gas gauge wire and wiggled them which made the needle flip and flop. Loose connection. I had to loosen the nuts retaining the instrument panel section of the dash. On my car there are 2 sets of 2 screws along the bottom edge of the dash. These can be easy to get out, but a bear for me to get back in. I replaced them with 1" screws I could push up and feel the ends of, so I could get the nuts on easily after. A little more twisting, but fewer days you know where.

I only have two other retaining nuts ( I may have given up trying to replace others), one on left, which I can feel by putting a knee on the running board and reaching up above the handbrake handle, to the left of the upper left temp/oil gauge nut. The other I can reach by putting a 3/8" wrench on a diagonal down through the ash tray hole with my right hand, then sticking my fingers through the leftmost open segment where the radio and maplight go. The nut is just to the left of that at radio level and I use my fingers to hold the backside of the wrench against that nut. In the photos, one arrow points at one of the nuts retaining the actual instrument, which eventually have to come off to remove the instrument completely from the car. The other arrow points to a nut retaining the whole instrument panel...the ones I have to take off to access the instruments.

I also disconnect the overdrive indicator/panel light control by pulling off the top, unscrewing the bezel, and pushing the switch towards the firewall. This may not be absolutely necessary, but it allows the instrument panel to come toward you farther and provides better access to the ammeter/gas gauge.

Sorry I didn't take photos while everything was apart yesterday.

You could PM flackmaster to see if he has one. If not he can recommend someone.

Attach file:



jpg  backinsulation.jpg (1,354.43 KB)
1067_5d1f8e4c9c08d.jpg 1512X2016 px

jpg  ammeter-gasgauge.jpg (536.18 KB)
1067_5d1f8e772f69e.jpg 2048X1405 px

jpg  instrumentretainingscrews.jpg (1,224.62 KB)
1067_5d1f8e8bde1e3.jpg 1512X1512 px

jpg  instrumentpanelnuts-left.jpg (560.06 KB)
1067_5d1f8e9c1cf9e.jpg 2047X1146 px

jpg  instrumentpanelnuts-right.jpg (1,522.55 KB)
1067_5d1f8eb059f35.jpg 1512X2016 px

Posted on: 7/5 11:04:29
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Re: burned up ammeter 1941 160 coupe
Just popping in
Joined:
2012/4/17 16:58
From Annapolis, MD
Posts: 5
MUCH obliged to all who have posted to help. I will report back with diagnosis and progress.

Posted on: 7/5 13:45:59
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