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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2013/5/7 13:42
From Scottsdale, Arizona, United States
Posts: 661
Good Morning...I'll bet Ross can tell some interesting stories about strange parts that he has found on Packard Automobiles...not correct, or even close to correct, but as the cars became older, and were just basic transportation, folks used anything that would make/help the cars run. I also mess around with Model A Fords...and we really do find strange parts on them! Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 10/27 8:41:07
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2145
Oh, I thought you meant that the replacement was backwards! Glad to hear it was your old one that was wrong.

The heat shield is important to minimize vapor lock and there were also supposed to be fiber insulating tubes inside the mounting bolt holes and fiber washers under the steel washers of the pump for the same reason. If these are not there you would not only be more susceptible to vapor lock but also the alignment of the pump might not be were it needs to be for proper action against the cam.

As for the vacuum lines, they are also steel with short rubber pieces of hose connecting them to the pump and to the wiper motor with a direct connection to the manifold. I believe that Classic Tube carries reproductions of the fuel line and vacuum line and if so you can get them in either steel or stainless.

Posted on: 10/27 13:05:15
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 313
Don - I didn't see any fiber washers or fiber tubes. The new pump came with a new gasket, but nothing else. I have some gasket material, I guess maybe I could fab some of those up?

I'll worry about the heat shield later. Eventually I will likely need it, but the car will not be on the road until spring anyways. Plus I'm hoping that running 100% ethanol-free gas helps prevent vapor lock.

I will look into the vacuum lines...good to know that Classic Tube might carry them. Would not having these lines present cause issues with running the car? If so, I'm surprised that it ran because these lines have been missing since I bought the car.

-Kevin

Posted on: 10/27 14:26:36
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2145
No, they are a hard fiber material so you'll have to locate some from one of the parts houses. Also, the gasket itself should be relatively thick but often people use thin ones which transfers engine heat into the fuel pump and it's back to vapor lock.

Posted on: 10/27 18:48:33
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 313
Pictures of the fiber tubes for the fuel pump mounting would be nice, if anyone has them. I don't know if those will be available at all from vendors.

Classic Tube does not have vacuum lines for the 327 engine, just the 359. Does anyone know if the lines are the same for both engines? Might just be easier to make my own....except I've never done that before.

-Kevin

Posted on: 10/28 9:59:33
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2145
I believe the vacuum lines would be the same but the best way to find out is to check in the parts book. Iíll try to do so later when I have more than a mobile device with which to do it!

Classic Tube typically makes their templates from a customerís sample and list it based on the car the customer tells them itís from but when I have them make anything, I kook it up in advance so that they have a proper listing. Also, their online catalog is far behind what they actually have.

UPDATED: Had a quick look at the parts book and canít find the line from the pump to the wiper motor but the line to the manifold is the same for all 1954 models but it matters whether power brakes or not. I suspect the one for a power brake car is a bit longer to compensate for the longer length of the T fitting where the brake booster connects.

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Posted on: 10/28 10:08:14
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 16043
On the question on the vacuum tubing, In the photo in post 359 it looks like the vacuum lines are both present. You can buy the short lengths of 1/4" steel tubing from Napa and cut and bend to the required shapes. I believe that would be a lot cheaper and faster than having them made by Classic.

The typical routing is using a shared fitting with the power brakes, the metal tubing leaves the manifold port below the carb and curves down and then forward to connect to about a 6-8" length of rubber hose going to the outlet of the vacuum pump. From the inlet of the vacuum pump another short hose joins another almost straight length of metal tubing visible just above and clamped to a special port plug on the longitudinal oil passage. That tubing goes to the rear of the engine where it bends upward for maybe 8 inches and then connects to another length of hose into the wiper motor.

For 54, if there was a windshield washer with the electric operation and coordinator, a tee was placed in that last section of rubber hose below the wiper motor to also supply vacuum to the washer.

The early pumps had solid metal connections at the pump for the vacuum tubing but I believe on some if not all of the later cars they had switched to a pump with ordinary hose nipples and used the short lengths of rubber vacuum hose to connect to the steel tubing.

Posted on: 10/28 10:51:30
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2145
Typically I get things from Classic Tubes in only a couple days. They are VERY fast and personally I much prefer putting original or authentic reproduction parts into my cars than anything I might be able to cobble together myself, especially when I have no original to compare.

For the 1954 models and most of the others, the only fitting is the one where it connects to the intake manifold. All other ends are just the tubing with no flare or anything else so the rubber hose just slips over it. Be sure, of course, to use vacuum hose as it has thicker walls than other types so as to not collapse with vacuum.

Posted on: 10/28 11:30:13
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 313
Had a couple minutes at lunch to look closely at the car as it stands now. The fuel pump/vacuum pump had no vacuum lines attached to it at all. The fitting on the manifold (below the base of the carb) has the large tube attached to the top, which goes to the brake booster and vacuum tank. The tube to the power brakes is capped off since the brake unit was removed some time in the past.

The smaller fitting is routed to the wiper motor. I'm assuming the line from the vacuum pump is supposed to connect to this fitting, and the other line from the pump goes to the wiper motor (like Howard said).

I'm seeing lots of oil contamination around the base of the carb, probably due to the oil getting sucked into the fuel. I'll pull the carb and clean everything up. I have new oil, just need a filter, then I'm draining everything and starting fresh. Lesson learned.

-Kevin

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jpg  Wiper vacuum line routing.jpg (557.89 KB)
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Posted on: 10/28 13:21:04
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2145
Yes, that's the line that is supposed to go to the booster diaphragm on the pump but someone apparently decided to cut and route it directly to the motor. That means that every time you touch the accelerator, the wipers will stop or slow down to a near stop.

Since you have the fitting in place for the brakes, the line that Classic Tube has should fit perfectly. However, since you're probably not quite ready to drive anywhere, you can get some rubber caps from your local Napa to keep dirt from being sucked into the pump's vacuum inlet.

Posted on: 10/28 13:32:38
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