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(1) 2 »

Captive Wing Nuts
#1
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JMB
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As part of the restoration process for my '52 300, we have had to remove both front wings. Unfortunately nearly all of the bolts holding them on were rusted solid and broke off during disassembly.

I'm not sure drilling them out in situ is an option for me. I'm thinking of cutting off the various mounts and welding on a new captive nut and reattaching the mounts. I've also been considering rivnuts as a potential option, if I can find them in the right size.

Does anyone else have other options to consider?

Thanks,

James

Posted on: 2020/11/8 18:33
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#2
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Packard Don
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I would probably soak whatever is left in PBlaster for a week or so, then at least try to drill them out. The PBlaster and heat from the drilling, along with an EasyOut might be all it takes and will save you much work. If that fails for whatever reason, that would be the time to consider replacing them.

Posted on: 2020/11/9 2:13
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#3
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Fish'n Jim
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I see a lot of work and alignment issues with that approach.
If they're weld nuts, see if any bolt sticks out the back you can get to, penetrant soak, and wiggle with the vice grips to loosen. At least get all the easy ones first.
Heat might also work, but need to be careful, use the brazing torch with a pencil point and only heat the center of the snapped off bolt. Bring to red heat then remove heat, don't go white. Repeat if needed, but give up after 2 shots.
I think drilling will be tedious, but maybe the last resort. Downside some of the threads can get damaged.
Could try the easy out, but if that corroded, may not work. I like the reverse twist drill bits, they sometimes come out on there own.
You could possibly flush grind (watching heat)or air stick grind the nut off the tab, then switch to "J" nuts or weld on a new one. I prefer to stick with what's original if at all possible.

Posted on: 2020/11/12 9:31
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#4
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Packard Don
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If using a torch, you DON'T want to directly heat the bolt itself as that expands it and makes it tighter. Try heating lightly around it but remember that you're dealing with sheet metal so be very careful to not get it too hot. Of course, heating and cooling the bolt several times could help loosen it but don't try removing it when it's hot.

Posted on: 2020/11/12 22:55
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#5
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JWL
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Lots of good suggestions, but be careful no to use too much pressure when attempting to remove the broken off studs. These caged nuts are prone to break off from their mountings when their cages fail. The cages are sheet metal spot welded on sheet metal. Best of luck.

Posted on: 2020/11/13 11:20
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#6
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Packard Don
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JW has a good point so try to drill as close to center as possible, starting with a small bit, then work up to larger sizes to as close to the threads that is still practical for getting an EasyOut into it. Too big and the EasyOut will chew the threads; too small and it may not readily come out although I'm suspecting that the drilling itself will help.

Posted on: 2020/11/13 13:13
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#7
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JMB
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Thanks for all the good advice. I have had some luck with these options so far. One bolt I had previously tried drilling out and left for a few weeks after initially giving up. I was able to twist it out with some small needle nose pliers - it had been previously stuck fast when I gave up on drilling it out. Perhaps sitting for a few weeks with penetrating oil on it finally broke it loose?

I was also able to get one of the lower front ones out by welding a nut to the top of what was left. The heat from the welding helped break it free.

I tried the same trick on the passenger side upper bolt, but there wasn't enough left sticking out to weld too. I've got an easy-out drilled in to it - but still stuck fast right now. I'm soaking it regularly in PB Blaster in the hope it will eventually break free.

The two back lower bolts are going to be tough as I can't get to the top side. I'll try drilling them and use the easy-out - but if that fails, I'm thinking heli-coils might be the way to go. They don't seem to need a hole much bigger than the current bolt size.

JB

Posted on: 2020/11/15 17:36
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#8
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Fish'n Jim
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B patient. Heat and lube. No sense rushing and ruining something. Probably need a combination of methods, based on access and situation.
I have/use pairs of small(6") needle nose and regular jaw vice grips pliers that come in handy and their fairly inexpensive. Make good hand vices, too.
The last thing one wants is to break off an easy out in one.
Need special carbide cutter to get out.
Sometimes there's enough of a thread tail where it breaks off, you can put a sharp point punch in the curl and tap it around to loosen. Usually just need to break free.
Good things don't come without a bit of frustration. Many give up, stay the course.
Some swear on acetone and trans fluid, but PB Blaster and good old penetrating oil are just as good.

If you find the holy grail, you'd have lots of followers.

Posted on: 2020/11/16 8:43
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#9
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acolds
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Having spent many hours at work removing repairing fixing broken fastener of many types. Best rule I gor from old timers is keep your cool when you get frustrated take break have coffee in old days smoke break walk around and rethink. Time is your enemy or friend use it on your side . Big hammer last ressort. Its a FUN hobby treat it as such Dead lines are for tv shows not your project

Posted on: 2020/11/16 10:52
C:\Users\veron\Desktop\New folder\1956 Packard Caribbean\753.jpg
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Re: Captive Wing Nuts
#10
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Packard Newbie
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Hi JMB,

Lots of good advice and passed-on experience from the pros here. I KNOW everyone has their PET rust-buster/penetratingly oil, and I get that, but if you haven't tried Free-All by Federal Process, (made in the US of A) it is an amazing product. I've had it free up impossible nuts and threads and when I DO get the problem item loosened up, I am always surprised by how far Free-All penetrated the threads. Just a suggestion and for what it's worth, I have absolutely no monetary incentive to promote the product - it just works! Chris

Posted on: 2020/11/16 15:04
'If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right!' Henry Ford.
1939 Packard Six, Model 1700
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