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Re: Old topics
Home away from home
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2006/5/29 19:02
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Quote:
Then, there was also "The Great Purge of 2006" at the AACA Packard Forum, where one former member asked for his account info to be deleted and the admins deleted not only every one of his posts, but any post in any chain of posts that replied to one his posts. Curiously, nothing like that happened with some other members who were banned, and their posts remain. Many viewed that situation as a thinly-vieled attempt to sanitize the Packard Forum.


Said individual didn't ask for his account to be deleted, they asked if it was possible. The minions over at the AACA took it upon themselves to delete as much as they did. They know what they did, and they planned it from the beginning. "Get rid of the undesirables" is paramount in any totalitarian regime.


VIVA LA RESISTANCE!!

Posted on: 2009/8/26 10:24
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Re: Old topics
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2006/8/20 10:27
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Posts: 158
To everyone I say thanks for the information and also thanks for this forum and may it always be as great as it is and has always been.


I did some more research on my own question.
Actually it was an old (great) post I had read on the Packard Club Forum, dated 11/06/01 regarding the torsion level compensator and lubrication required which I had printed and placed in a loose leaf binder where I keep what I consider relative tech tips on servicing and repair of my 5680 Packard Patrician. The question was relative to one I had also asked on this forum regarding grease (lubricant) for the compensator gear box. In that note it was recommended to use "Lithium Stearate grease" but no vendor or brand of grease was referenced.
I have been unable to find the Sta-Lube 3303 here in Hampton Roads which was a recommendation to my question here on this site regarding a suitable grease for the compensator box, so I was trying to follow old leads.
I suppose I will call Sta- Lube and see what they have to say.

I haven't been on the Packard Forum for a long while and I'm sorry to hear of the problems. There was a lot of good info there but this is now home for me. Amen Brothers.

Posted on: 2009/8/26 15:44
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Re: Old topics
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2006/11/29 20:35
From Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 2852
I can't help you with the thread on the other Packard Forum, but perhaps you are also referring to the thread on this site:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ost_id=5626#forumpost5626

In addition to Sta Lube SL-3303, we discussed another grease, CRC Brake Caliper Grease (#05353):

http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/con ... _detail.aspx?S=Y&PN=05353

I stumbled across this product on the shelf at AutoZone and purchased it, because of its graphite content, to lube the snout of the input bearing retainer on the manual tranny and the corresponding recess in the throwout bearing on one of my old Chevies. GM's Assembly Instruction Manual for that car specified a graphite grease, and this product also looked and felt similar to what I've seen in NOS throwout bearings of the period.

Looking back to the previous discussion of T-L compensator grease, here, I had wondered if CRC-05353 might be a replacement for SL-3303, which is (was?) also distributed by CRC (having acquired Sta Lube in 1993). One would have to contact CRC to discover the answer to that.

I don't, personally, recall reading anything about a lithium stearate grease, but molybdenum disulfide is noted in the SAE paper on the T-L suspension. Because CRC-05353 also contains MoS2, as well as graphite and Teflon, I wondered if the CRC Brake Caliper Grease (#05353) would be an effective substitute for the original grease as distributed by S-P.

Owen_Dyneto also cited the need for a non-channelling (slumping type) grease that would migrate back after being displaced by operation of the planetary geartrain.

If someone can validate CRC-05353 as appropriate for this application, I would gladly post that info, with due credit, in a FAQ.

Posted on: 2009/8/27 6:22
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Re: Old topics
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BH, Thanks for your info and yes, I do recall your earlier thread about the CRC product and that was got me to try and locate some of it locally.

I did call the CRC tech dept.in Warminster, Pa. at the phone number (1 800-521-3168) listed on their tubes of grease. I ask if the SL-3144 extreme pressure Moly-Graph lubrication product was suitable for use in a planetary type gear box as was manufactured by the Packard Automobile co. in 1955 and 1956.
She (the engineer, tech?)said absolutely, because it was designed for use in farm,industrial and automotive gear boxes,wheel bearings, ball and roller , bushed bearings, slides, backing plates, chassis points, ball joints,u-joints etc. It is designed to minimize wear and withstand extreme pressure from heavy loading, shock loads, water attacks and friction because it establishes a fine micron plating on all working surfaces and contains rust and oxidation protection. When I ask about it's channeling properties, She said they don't use that term but if a gear or something else caused the product to be displaced the gear or whatever would still be protected from damage because of the plating effect and the fact that not all of grease would be displaced at any given period of time.

Posted on: 2009/8/27 17:52
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Re: Old topics
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Thanx for the legwork!

I've started a FAQ summarizing the salient points of our exploration of the three products, with links pointing back to the original threads/posts, external links to CRC product info pages, and included a quote of your conversation with CRC's tech. I'll be fine-tuning it in the dyas ahead - and as more info comes to light

Little by little, the FAQ continues to grow. Hopefully, others will develop FAQs for their favorite Packards.

Posted on: 2009/8/28 6:41
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Re: Old topics
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Posts: 158
Bh, Thanks for your help and input.
I called CRC tech service again and ask why I would have to use solvent to ensure complete removal of the existing grease from the compensator box because Packard had used a Molybdenum grease in it originally. I was told that moly grease was not available then so, Packard had to of used something else. Even so, it turns out the Sta-Lube grease is Lithium based but has moly as an ingredient, even tho the label says EP "MOLY-GRAPH" Grease. I don't believe this is a case of misrepresenting a product but, it is confusing to me.
I personnaly don't believe that S/L 3144 is a good or viable choice for the T/L gear box because the box would have to be removed from the car, dis-assembled (To prevent damaging the rubber seals, probably no longer available), cleaned with solvent, reassembled, tested, re-installed,etc.
Even if I had to remove the box for other reasons I still would not use a product that is non compatible with anything else. Too much trouble with future servicing.
I intend to pursue the ? as to what grease Packard actually did use and what was the base ingredient.

I'm back to square one with what to top off or replace the current grease with but will probably go with a brand name of some type of Moly that is compatible or at least has no warning labels on it.

Posted on: 2009/8/28 10:24
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Re: Old topics
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2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 16066
I don't think I'd agonize too much over the grease, chassis grease today is much superior to the 50s, and I'd bet that the majority of folks with T/L cars and who don't do their own lubrication will find the service station, if they did anything at all, put a grease fitting in place of the lower plug and just used chassis grease. And since gear box failures from negligent lubrication (as opposed to failure from the limit switches or something like that) are rare (at least I've never head of one), I'd think that would be a reasonable choice until such time as you chose to remove and clean the box.

Posted on: 2009/8/28 11:13
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Re: Old topics
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I would question the validity of that tech's knowledge. Molybdenum disulfide was most certainly available back then! Why else would that very compound be specified in the SAE paper published in 1955?

It may be, however, common practice to flush out all old grease to avoid potential compatibility issues between different products.

I'm no chemist or engineer, but my gut tells me the product pages for which I posted links in the FAQ don't tell the whole story. So, I followed the links for the MSDS sheets, which show that ALL THREE products contain molybdenum disulfide - INCLUDING SL-3144. However, SL-3144 has quite a bit less of it than the other two products - might not be the best choice.

Too bad we don't know all the components and proportions of the original compensator grease.

Posted on: 2009/8/28 11:20
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Re: Old topics
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Too bad we don't know all the components and proportions of the original compensator grease.

Amen! And my guess is that it probably won't come to light. And you're right on target about MoS2, it's been around for a long time as both a dry lubricant and an additive for gel and paste lubricants. It's particularly nice for high temperature applications as it sublimes (goes from a solid to a vapor w/o passing thru a liquid stage) at 450 degrees Centigrade!, far higher than the conventional components of typical greases.

And since it's been additive on otherwise conventional greases for so long, I don't quite understand the compatibility question, prior history would say it's been compatible for all those years, why not now? Pretty much the same thinking goes for graphite, another ingredient in the StaLube 3303.

Posted on: 2009/8/28 11:26
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Re: Old topics
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WRT to compatibility, I would wonder whether there might be other compounds in the original blend or even the base itself that might not be compatible with those of more modern greases, even though they do contain MoS2. Perhaps better to err on the side of caution.

As for the original recipe, I worked at the Avanti plant for a few years after it moved to Youngstown, and they had many copies of blueprint copies of the original engineering drawings from Studebaker, as well as original drawings from Avanti Motor Company (nothing on Packard, though). Yet, I noticed that when a component could not be described by physical dimension, a drawing was still issued - one that included text details or a refernce to some other internal or supplier document.

Has anyone ever inquired about the P/N 474028 grease with the Studebaker museum in So. Bend? They're not engineers, but the museum received a donation of many Packard engineering drawings some years ago.

Alternatively, would it be possible to take a sample of grease form an existing, low mileage, original compensator planetary, have it analyzed somewhere?

Posted on: 2009/8/28 11:37
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