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The Indiana plant is a Subaru plant , it was a JV with Isuzu before Subaru "sold" capacity they didn't need (one line) to Toyota who needed it. Now that Subaru is growing at >20% in North America, they want the capacity after the contract is over. The BRZ/Scion coupe has worked out OK as a JV

Sure, JVs have been around since the beginning of the industry, but instead of current production cars, I'm talking about allowing close proximity of a competitor to the core of your advance product testing and development facility. At GM today, we don't even let all GM employees onto the Milford Proving Ground property, much less allow a competitor build adjacent to the site. We seem to have our hands full just flushing all the spy photographers out of nearby tall trees!

Well, keep up the good work preventing other car companies from spying on GM! I'd hate to see other car companies copying GMs styling cues!

... and you can take that any old way you want to.

I kid, and GM makes a good car, but I've always found their styling to be a bit 'vanilla' for me. Other than the new Cadillacs, like CTS which was on my short list a couple years back when I was looking to replace the BMW. And as a younger person, if you'd said 10 years ago that I'd be looking at a Cadillac (less than 40 years, anyway) then I'd think you were nuts.

I'm talking about allowing close proximity of a competitor to the core of your advance product testing and development facility.

I agree, it's not ideal, but Packard could have used the $15-$20M cash that Hydramatic might have paid for the Utica plant. The track wasn't secure anyway, and it was obsolete, it didn't even have a skidpad.

In the late 30s, before GM built the Milford facility, Packard leased it's track to Cadillac.

<i>We seem to have our hands full just flushing all the spy photographers out of nearby tall trees!</i>

When you drive eastbound on I-94, you can easily tell when you are passing the Chrysler proving grounds in Chelsea. The low fence that doesn't even keep deer off the freeway is replaced by a very tall, barb wire topped fence, with a clear kill zone on the other side, then thick forest.

Chrysler didn't have a proving ground until the Chelsea facility was built in 54. Hudson never had a proving ground at all.

Who knows, if Packard had sold the track to Hydramatic, along with the plant, then run it's test cars on streets more, instead of at the track, the flaws in the 55 Ultramatic might have shown up sooner and been corrected before production started.

Interesting... Had never heard that about Cadillac leasing the grounds from Packard. If they did, it wasn't because Milford was not finished. Milford pre-dated the PPG by three years, 1924 versus 1927. It's well-documented that Chrysler leased the PPG during WWII, but I hadn't seen mention of Cadillac.

GM did build Milford, and had it open by 1925, and were fiercely independent in owning that facility, as a lot of future product rolled there. I have never heard of Cadillac using PPG and think you have switched some facts around in your head since reading them.

I have never heard of Cadillac using PPG and think you have switched some facts around in your head since reading them.


That's certainly possible. Seems that I read somewhere that Caddie used the track in 37-38, but maybe the person that wrote what I read had it wrong.

Hello Steve203

Back on page 3, post #21, you said:
"Take a look at the old proving grounds from the air. With Google satellite view, use 50500 Mound Rd as an address. There was no security. The north and south ends of the oval were only a few feet from public roads. Anyone could stand on public land and see what was going on in the track."

Ummm...no.

It is one thing to look at a current Google Earth satellite view and quite another thing to actually drive by the PPG when it was in use. You could NOT see the track from either 22 Mile Road or 23 Mile Road.

This is because of the 25 foot to 30 foot high earth berms for the high-speed, BANKED turns, not to mention the trees and other foliage at the top of the bank/berm.

When the track was removed a few years ago the berms were then graded to be at nearly the same height as the road and you can now see the vacant infield of the former track.

BTW, the actual address of the PPG is 49965 Van Dyke. We are having a car show (Cars-R-Stars @ the PPG) on Sunday, June 8th. I will be working the Main Gate all day long. Come on out and introduce yourself.

Finally, we have zero records regarding Cadillac leasing the PPG, Chrysler: yes, during the war years. Cadillac; no.

I also have a copy of a report from AMC was preparing to buy the PPG at back in the 1960s as they were tired of going to Kenosha for their testing.


--Roger--

<i>BTW, the actual address of the PPG is 49965 Van Dyke. We are having a car show (Cars-R-Stars @ the PPG) on Sunday, June 8th. I will be working the Main Gate all day long. Come on out and introduce yourself.</i>

Thanks. I used the 50500 Mound address as that is what I found when I was trying to locate the plant some time ago.

The Gilmore has a vintage motorcycle show on the 8th, but I'm not that in to bikes.

<i>Finally, we have zero records regarding Cadillac leasing the PPG, Chrysler: yes, during the war years. Cadillac; no.</i>

The other account of the test track history I read was obviously in error. Thanks everyone for the correction.

<i>I also have a copy of a report from AMC was preparing to buy the PPG at back in the 1960s as they were tired of going to Kenosha for their testing.</i>

Some of the AMC styling guys show up at the AMC meet in Livonia each year. They all worked in the Plymouth Rd offices. I never asked them how they liked the trip to Wisconsin, but I imagine it was even less fun in the 50s when there were no freeways.

Apparently they were not too worried about Ford people spying on them from the plant.

The AMC track was bought by MGA Research in 88 and still exists, and still way out in the boonies outside of Kenosha. 5000 Warren Road, Burlington, Wisconsin

On pages 205 and 209 of Automobile Quarterly's "Buick - A Complete History" by Dunham and Gustin (published 1980) are three photographs showing a 1938 and a 1939 Buick being tested at the PPG. Buick even rented the Packard "Towing Dynamometer". Copyright issues prevent me from posting the photos.