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Tail light backing for 23 series
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Joined:
2014/8/30 7:35
From San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 193
Of course more problems and questions pop up as I am replacing the wiring harness in my '49 / 23 series. I'm doing the tail lights (waiting for the new lens gaskets)and I'm thinking there must be some kind of backing piece to hold the assembly to the fender. Would Packard run the studs through the fender gasket and maybe put a washer and nut to hold it in place? The washer does not fit flush to the fender, thus the nut does not make a good contact with the washer.

The studs stick into the interior of the fender by more than 1 to 1 1/2 inches. Maybe I am missing something? It possible that this is not original because there are many odd things on this car (Previous post about the clutch and blower switches).

Another problem that I caused, I didn't take pictures of the "reading light" wiring when I changed the wiring for the switch to the light and so forth. Would anyone have a picture of how this is suppose to be wired? There is a dual bakelite junction between the light and the switch and that's about all I recall.

Thanks for the help. Pictures of the fender and tail lights attached included. The ride arrows on the interior of the fender show the bolt holes. No shots of the trunk.

Attach file:



jpg  Lft fender ext.jpg (89.75 KB)
67700_56cb82c168656.jpg 640X480 px

jpg  Lft tail light stud.jpg (97.29 KB)
67700_56cb836436028.jpg 640X480 px

jpg  Lft fender int 3.jpg (102.65 KB)
67700_56cb83eeeb1a1.jpg 640X480 px

Posted on: 2016/2/22 13:57
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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2006/4/17 11:22
From North Aurora, IL
Posts: 9223
Wasn't there a rubber pad/gasket. Perhaps a look in the Steele Rubber catalog or the Parts List Manual here on the website.

Posted on: 2016/2/22 14:23
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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Joined:
2014/8/30 7:35
From San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 193
There is a gasket, which I have, the goes between the tail light assembly and the fender, but there is nothing on the inside of mine except a nut and washer.

I have combed through Kanter and Merritt's catalogs, checked on line and the service manual, no dice. I wonder if it was a bolt that went through from the inside of fender to the assembly and the 2 studs went through into the trunk (Hope that makes sense).

I am hoping someone has a part number or photos of how their tail light assembly is attached.

Also, am hoping to see a picture of the wiring for the rear "reading" light above the rear window. I messed up and didn't get a picture.

B

Posted on: 2016/2/22 16:30
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15655
There is something called a reinforcement, tail light to fender mounting for the 23rd series. No photos of the thing and I have no idea what it is but it might be some kind of plate to go inside the trunk that the studs from housing would pass thru.


I can't help with a photo of your specific model courtesy light but they are all about the same postwar. Here is a smaller version of your lamp as was used on models with multiple lights. The wiring diagram is from the 23rd series schematics.

There should be two short wires coming out of the lamp socket with a small square tab on the ends. The wires in the courtesy lamp loom will be separate from the bunch going to the trunk. For your car with a single over window lamp it will only be two wires ending at the lamp -- again with the small brass tabs. Those connect to the two from lamp with inline connectors -- doesn't matter which is which..

Tracing the wire route backwards from the lamp, there will be two splices above the pillar behind the driver. One in the hot wire going all the way to the floor and exiting a notch at the bottom of the pillar. It will have another small tab and connects under the carpet with an inline connector to the wire coming from the front seat. On your car with no lamps in the seat back it will only supply the cigar lighter. The top wire continues on forward, down the left windshield pillar and exits with the bunch from the trunk. Should connect to the aux circuit breaker on the back of instrument cluster.

The other wire coming from the lamp could be done one of two ways. One would have two splices and wires going down the pillar -- one wire goes to the pillar switch and the other to the switch which is operated by the door. The other way would be a single splice at the top for the pillar switch wire and the second splice occurring in that pillar switch wire but located a few inches into the pillar. That second wire would go down to the door switch. Typically the top wire above headliner will continue forward, go above the windshield and back on the right side to the center pillar and drop down to the switch operated by the passenger side rear door. The pre 55 cars I've looked at have all had that routing but I can't positively say they never continued across the rear window and then forward with the wire to the passenger side door switch.

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_1543.jpg (59.10 KB)
209_56cbb4aa3170e.jpg 1280X621 px

jpg  23rd courtesy light.jpg (47.71 KB)
209_56cbb4b658627.jpg 702X1280 px

Posted on: 2016/2/22 17:24
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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2014/8/30 7:35
From San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 193
Thanks Howard
You have moved the marbles around upstairs and I think recall how it goes now.
I actually labeled the old bakelite connectors from the trunk when the truck wiring was removed. Those connectors supplied power to the "Reading" light. There is also a small switch on the passenger B pillar.

Did come through the catalogs again, no "Reinforcement" part listed. So, maybe I will make one from some flat stock.

Thanks again for the assist!
B

Posted on: 2016/2/23 8:50
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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2007/10/28 7:49
Posts: 2348
As I recall, there indeed was a plate for the 23rd series taillight. If you don't have them a combination of rubber grommets and fender washers will work. They need only be snug along with low strength Loctite.

We had some of the gaskets with the original Packard labels as well, but that was back when those were just used cars nobody wanted.

Posted on: 2016/2/23 13:37
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/8/30 7:35
From San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 193
Thanks for the info Tim
Still guessing I make my own retainer. Included are some pictures of the trunk interior. They have a flat spot molded into the interior truck liner.

I hope I did the wiring correctly just shout. Thanks to HH56
Here are a picture

Thanks for all the advice!
B

Attach file:



jpg  Reading lht wiring 2.jpg (93.23 KB)
67700_56ccea184a351.jpg 640X480 px

jpg  Rht trunk interior.jpg (109.44 KB)
67700_56ccea33e2026.jpg 640X480 px

jpg  lft trunk interior.jpg (100.28 KB)
67700_56ccea43ee943.jpg 640X480 px

Posted on: 2016/2/23 15:27
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15655
As I mentioned, I believe Packard ran the wire to the right door switch to the left switch first and then all the way around and over the windshield but as long as the wire is protected so it doesn't chafe along that loop don't see a problem saving a few feet of wire by going that direction. As long as both door switches and the pillar switch can connect that white wire to ground and power is fed to the other wire (and cigar lighter hot feed is spliced in above the left pillar) it should work fine.

Posted on: 2016/2/23 16:07
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Howard
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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2013/9/19 11:06
From Pasco, WA
Posts: 199
Here's a pic of mine. Of course there's no way to prove this is original, and I would think there would be a backing plate of some sort. But my car is unrestored and largely original, and since both sides use the same hardware it suggests, at least to me, that it's not shadetree.

Edit: second picture is of the outside hardware, accessed from under the car, behind the wheel well. Here is the backing plate

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_20160223_195620.jpg (133.11 KB)
19454_56cd29fe57882.jpg 1165X1280 px

jpg  IMG_20160223_203546.jpg (84.53 KB)
19454_56cd33aa89ae0.jpg 831X1280 px

Posted on: 2016/2/23 19:56
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Re: Tail light backing for 23 series
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Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 16022
Just watched a friend change the rubber gasket between the lamp pod and the fender on his 23rd series, it attached exactly as sloride75's picture.

Posted on: 2016/2/23 20:16
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