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Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Just popping in
Joined:
2017/8/5 8:02
From Falun, Sweden
Posts: 4
Hi!
I am a long-time reader but first time poster.

I purchased my dream car a 1947 Packard Custom Super 4dr a few years ago and been working with it ever since. I have made good progress with it and driven it a lot this summer but have had a heavy vibration at certain speeds that puzzled me until my father driving behind me noticed the rear wheels bouncing up and down and to the sides.

We pulled the rear wheels which were OK and balanced, measured the drums which were heavily bent in all directions (a couple of mm or 0.1") and must be the source of the heavy vibration, finally found! I guess a lot of violence was used to get the drums off earlier. I have now ordered reconditioned drums from Kanter which will cure this problem.

I then pulled the drums to measure the runout of the axle shaft which came in to about 0.07 mm or 0.003" at the end of the tapered part. Can someone please advise me here if this is within spec or if I need to take care of it? I see no guidance in the shop manual and want this perfect. If outside of spec then my plan would be to pull the shafts and see if it possible to straighten them. What do you think?

Thank you very much for this site. It has helped me enormously with getting the car to work!

/Magnus

Posted on: 2017/8/7 1:22
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/16 15:39
From Santa Fe
Posts: 5466
I can not answer your question about the runout of the axle shafts; although, if violent means were used to remove the drums damage could have been done to the ends of the axles. Someone here will have an answer for you on this.

I doubt the axles are causing the vibration you describe. While the wheels and tires may be in balance, the tires could be out-of-round. No amount of balancing will offset the bouncing of a tire that is not true.

The damaged drums could be causing the vibration and replacing them with sound ones is a good plan.

Depending on what you find with the axle runout, now would be a good time to service the axle bearings and seals. This is an often overlooked maintenance.

JWL

Posted on: 2017/8/7 7:54
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Packards Owned -
37 Six (115C) Convertible Coupe (1089) - Now in Belgium
47 Clipper Custom Super Touring Sedan (2122) - Now in Virginia
55 Cipper Super Sedan (5542) - Now in Maryland

We move toward and make happen what occupies our mind. (W. Scherer)
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 16214
Likewise can't offer much direct advice but if the bend in the shaft was in a place that altered the mating of the bearing rollers with their bearing race rather than just at the taper end itself, then I'd say it would be essential to have the shaft straightened, otherwise the rear wheel bearings will have be misaligned which to some extent would affect their service life. Likewise the runout, again if before the taper, would shorten the life of the axle shaft seal.

If the runout of 0.003" was solely caused by a bend in the shadt after the bearing and seal surface, I don't think I'd be overly concerned about it.

Posted on: 2017/8/7 8:37
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10676
G'day Magnus Olaison,
to PackardInfo, and I invite you to include your '47 Custom Super 4 door in the Packard Owner's Registry.

Posted on: 2017/8/7 14:13
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 228
Taking a radial runout of the end of the axle can be problematic. The axle has a bearing clearance that may be in play. The only way to make sure the axle on your side is riding hard on the outer race is to have a helper push the other wheel toward the center of the car while they rotate the wheel. However as soon as they push on the wheel to bring the bearing clearance to zero the whole car is likely to move toward you, so the dial indicator must be mounted to the car . . . not the ground.

With the assistance of your helper you can estimate the amount of force they will need to apply while you are conducting the radial run-out check. Set-up your dial indicator to measure the axial motion of the axle . . . we will actually be measuring the bearing clearance during the next few steps. Start-off with you pushing your axle toward the center of the car. The helper will now pull on their side (both you and the helper are applying force in the same direction). While they’re still pulling their wheel outward you pull your axle toward you noting the distance the axle moves. With the helper still pulling on their wheel repeat the axial motion measurement a few times with you moving your axle in and out. Now with your axle pushed in have the helper to lightly push their wheel toward the center of the car. As soon as the full amount of axial motion has occurred your helper should note the amount of force it took to push your axle toward you.

Set-up for the radial measurement and have your helper ‘push and turn’ with at least the same amount of force as above. While the radial run-out is an interesting measurement I’m not sure that number matters . . . unless it’s wildly high. It is the run-out of the axle and hub as an assembly that would matter . . . that is the assembly after the axle nut is torqued to the specified value . . . which is not a trivial amount. If the axle has a small ‘tweak’ and is asked to slide into the bore of the hub which is true my bet is the hub will help straighten the axle.

The axle/hub interface is assembled dry. Do not hit the hub or brake drum trying to do a better job in seating the assembly. You can tap on the hub radially to help the sliding motion, but not with a lot of impact force. Use a slow and steady torque . . . no impact tools. Most of my friends that have cars with tapered axles advocate a re-tightening of the axle nut after a 100 miles or so . . . I also recommend this re-torqueing practice.

Let’s get back to the axial measurement . . . that’s the bearing clearance that may be compared to the specified tolerance. If it’s OK you can disassemble and repack the bearings knowing that activity will not change the clearance. If the clearance is not correct you will need to adjust the shim stack between the brake backing plate and the rear axle housing. Not a big deal, the written procedure in the shop manual will cover those steps. You want about an equal amount of shims on both sides, so you can check that when you’re repacking the bearings. Less shim thickness decreases the bearing clearance; more shim thickness increases the bearing clearance. Replacement of the bearing or axle will require a bearing clearance confirmation.

I’ve also heard that a collision, or sliding into a curb can ‘tweak’ a wheel and perhaps the hub. Excessive wheel or hub run out could be a result from a ‘wild ride on an icy road’.

dp

Posted on: 2017/8/7 16:02
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Just popping in
Joined:
2017/8/5 8:02
From Falun, Sweden
Posts: 4
Thank you all for commenting. I realize now that the bearing clearance can be in play as both axles have the same amount of run-out. As you mention that now is a good time to service the bearings, so I will be taking the shafts out anyway and might as well measure them on the bench to investigate it further.

I will let you know how it goes. Thank you all!

Posted on: 2017/8/8 0:09
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Re: Runout of Axle shafts on 1947 Custom Super
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10676
Magnus, for including your '47 Custom Super Clipper Eight Touring Sedan in the Registry.

Posted on: 2017/8/8 0:11
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan(Sold Feb 2020)

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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