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Lost History
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/6/1 14:49
From Ca
Posts: 496
To quote Packard53

Quote:
More money is spent finding a half cocked solution to problems, than if the item in need of repair was fixed in the first place.



Was cruising through some old forum posts and ran across this quote from Packard53. The thread was talking about the Chrysler 727 conversion for the ultramatic. I fully agree with him. Maybe it's the younger Packard owners that haven't developed the fascination for the "way it was" yet that are bound and determined to re-invent the wheel.


For every original part or assembly that is pulled off and dumped, under the guise of " making it better or safer or what ever", for me the interest in the car diminishes. Automotive history is lost. It is no longer what it was.


If you want a car that does 0-60 in 10 seconds, shifts like a Chrysler, has a 12volt negative ground electrical system with A/C etc... I say go buy one and leave the dwindling supply of old cars alone.


What do you guys think?

Posted on: 2008/12/31 10:14
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Re: Lost History
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/3/31 14:39
From Portland Oregon
Posts: 844
I think you should try and save as many cars as YOU can, and let owners do what they want with THEIR cars.

I like cars original, but I'm not about to nit pick every modification I see that keeps another old car on the road and out of the jaws of the crusher.

This is a Hobby to most. A leisure and indulgence that keep alot of people happy fiddling with projects on their spare time. Nobody is reinventing the wheel, they are just doing whatever it takes to keep their projects going at a price they can afford. Not everyone can afford to send out their twin ultramatic and have it gone thorugh. The Chrysler trans is cheaper, and parts can be found locally.

This is a long drawn out feud that spreads through ALL marques.....stay original or modify. It won't be resolved EVER.

To each his own....I'd fix the original trans. Just my opinion.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 10:39
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Re: Lost History
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2008/1/8 20:15
From Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 3610
my restoration will be 100% original design and correct year parts too. no 56 trans in a 55, just because they made things better. it came with a 55, it is getting a 55.

i am not against people modding things, my z3 is a mod fest, but my clipper will be original.

no worries.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 11:55
_________________
1937 Packard 138-CD Deluxe Touring Limousine
Maroon/Black 1090-1021
1955 Packard Clipper Custom Constellation
Citrine/Onyx 5567-2948 VP 57

link to my project blogs:
Henry's 37 Limousine Project Blog
Henry's 55 Constellation Project Blog

In memory of Henry Lee Greene Jr.
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Re: Lost History
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15402
Like many guys who entered this hobby decades ago with the thrill of seeing the really early cars that were more often preserved rather than restored, I'm a purist and keep my cars as authentic as practical, but I think you all knew that already. To each his own, but it gives me shivers to see cars buggered up so their historic context is gone. Granted it sometimes limits how and where I can drive them. I find the excuses for 12 volt conversions, electric fuel pumps, brake conversions, electric wipers, alternators and the like generally pretty feeble.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 12:04
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Re: Lost History
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2006/4/23 14:14
From Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1823
I share Owen's sentiments that there is little justification for many of the modifications that diminish the experience of owning and operating these historic vehicles although to some degree I am guilty of this myself. My Packard has seat belts, halogen headlights and has an electric fuel pump to assist with starting. I am old enough to remember the 1950's Packards as new cars so don't have the same appreciation for these models as "antiques" as some do especially the V-8's but I do appreciate that they are historically significant.
Part of the fun is the challenge of driving and maintaining these vehicles as they were built and with the equipment that they came with. To put a modern drivetrain in an old car is to defeat the whole purpose of owning one but at the same time I realize that we also live in a free society and each owner of an old car can do as he/she wishes with his/her property.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 14:03
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Re: Lost History
Webmaster
Joined:
2006/4/17 11:22
From North Aurora, IL
Posts: 9150
There are many different ways to look at this argument. I really think that a good original car that needs minor work to get back on the road should be kept as original as possible.

There is also nothing wrong with a well done restoration when the car is already a good enough candidate to do that.

Finally it comes down to "project" cars, or cars that are in pretty sad shape and are not economically feasible to restore. I would think that it is better to have that Packard back on the road in a modified state, then to have them crushed.

As far as my Clipper goes, I will end up putting more into the car then it would ever be worth. But thatís fine with me as I never plan on selling it. Everything with my car is done on a budget and all I want is a nice driver out of it. When I am done with it, I will have a 12v system with power windows, and AC. Temps here in So Cal near 110 in the summer, so without A/C, I would imagine it would be parked during the summer months. Most of these mods (except for the A/C) setup will be pretty much hidden. My Clipper did not come with these options, but they were available in '54. But with a limited budget trying to source the original hydraulic windows, pump, and the entire '54 a/c setup is just about impossible. But at least it will be another Packard back on the road and if I didnít buy the car for $500, it would have gone to the scrapper.

Also after everything is said and done, any of these "option" modifications could be removed. Also just about everything else on the car is as original as possible (budget allowing).

Everything is said going to come down to what someone does with their personal property. If someone rescues a car from a crusher, then it had a second lease on life in any form that may ultimately take.

Just my

Posted on: 2008/12/31 14:10
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-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan | Project Blog

"While it's nice to be important, it's important to be nice."

"Although no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new end."
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Re: Lost History
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15402
Kev, I don't look on it as an arguement, just different segments of the overall hobby.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 15:16
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Re: Lost History
Webmaster
Joined:
2006/4/17 11:22
From North Aurora, IL
Posts: 9150
Agreed. Perhaps arguement was a poor choice of words.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 15:36
_________________
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan | Project Blog

"While it's nice to be important, it's important to be nice."

"Although no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new end."
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Re: Lost History
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/8/14 19:54
From east coast
Posts: 430
I agree with most of the opinions stated here. I love seing and operating old equipment (and cars) the way it was originaly. preservations and oem restorations are far more interesting to me than rigs that have been modified hevily.

however, i do see the value in small driveability mods like electric fuel pumps. I find these helpful, especially since i dont get to drive my packard all that frequently. it may be two weeks, and i dislike having to crank and crank waiting for the fuel to get up there. better air and fuel filters (not necissarily on packards) can sometimes be very helpful in preserving old engines. braking system mods are, IMO, perfectly fine. if you dont feel safe with a 50 or 60 years old system, or one with a bad reputation (treadlevac) then that is understandable.

However there is no excuse for chevy 350s and turbo 350 trannys.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 18:14
_________________
Daily Driver: 1993 Dodge D350 Cummins Turbo Diesel 1991 Dodge W350 Cummins 1956 Patrician
police car! 1955 patrician to be preserved, 1955 parts car Police car owners registry
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Re: Lost History
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/30 18:18
From PA
Posts: 1272
In the case of going to the trouble of putting a 727 in a Packard to replace is it really any cheaper that having the ultra fixed.

If you buy a 727 conversion kit, then locate a 727 and have it rebuilt then the installation how much is it going to cost. I bet that it would be cheaper just to get the ultra repaired.

I prefer to keep both of my vehicles very near stock. The Chevelle I have I am willing to make a few minor changes here at there but not many.

The 53 Packard will be bone stock for as long as I have it.

Some of the modifications people want to do such as electronic ignition and upgrading to disc brakes for me just dosn't cut it. The expense involved and for the few hundred miles a year that I drive my Chevelle, it's just worth not the dollars that would be spent.

On the other hand for those people that want to do those kind of modifications and other types of mods. I say go for it if that what you want.

Upon closing I would like to say that I have no intensions of posting in Packardinfo for 2008 anymore. See all of you in 2009.


John F. Shireman

Posted on: 2008/12/31 19:48
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