Re: Richter's '53 Caribbean
Posted by Richter12x2 On 2014/11/6 23:36:01
Since it was bothering me, I did some more research and a measurement or two on the frames for the Caribbean and the Clipper.
The part numbers are different for the Convertible and hardtop frames, but my suspicions were that it could be due to the additional bracing the convertibles received and not necessarily due to any changes to the frame. In my head it didn't make economic sense that a car company would make maintain different frames entirely for different bodies, likewise, if the running gear and the doors, fenders, etc were all interchangeable with a Clipper, then the frame can't be that far off.
According to the 1951-1954 Packard Service and Selling Manual frame section (I attached the page), while there were 4 different model ranges, the measurements only vary once, between the 250 and 300's. Also, the entirety of the difference happens between mounting points C and D (which are the final two outriggers of the 5 that run all in parallel. But additionally, the U brace (at B) and Z brace at A are 5" further back, which isn't possible on the shorter frame, so the side frame rails themselves would be different.
In summary, essentially if it's a 300 series frame, then the frame wouldn't work.
The point of reference seemed a bit arbitrary to me, but since measurement H is the same across both versions of the frame, I measured from H to C, and rather than dead center the hole, I figured that just going from the front of H to the back of C would tell me if it was 5" off or not.
On the Clipper frame that looks so pretty in the pictures above, the measurement from the outrigger at H and the one at C are 67" measured from outside to outside.
On the Caribbean frame, with the body mounted it's still easy to see where the outriggers bolt on, especially since a lot of the floor is rusted away there. :D From H to C, it measures 67" inches as well, so it confirms that the shorter version of the frame was used for the Caribbean as well. There is maybe an 1/8th inch steel plate welded to the bottom of the big X brace only. (Can't see the top yet.) The metal frame itself doesn't appear to be any thicker, but once the body's off, I can get a micrometer on it. Having stared at the thing for a few dozen hours wirewheeling and sandblasting though, I'd be prepared to vouch that it's not any different.
I know that it's not definitive, and I can't confirm if the outriggers are higher or lower, but they're all in the right place (which means they can be swapped if necessary.) I'll know more in a couple of weeks when I can brace the Caribbean body and get it off of the frame to measure and see the top.
Hopefully this info will help someone else one day, too.
So Mr Lincoln's not dead, but his suit will require a bit of easy tailoring. Now I'm glad my wife stopped me before I could paint the bottom of that frame, should make for an easy weld. :)
Attach file:
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The part numbers are different for the Convertible and hardtop frames, but my suspicions were that it could be due to the additional bracing the convertibles received and not necessarily due to any changes to the frame. In my head it didn't make economic sense that a car company would make maintain different frames entirely for different bodies, likewise, if the running gear and the doors, fenders, etc were all interchangeable with a Clipper, then the frame can't be that far off.
According to the 1951-1954 Packard Service and Selling Manual frame section (I attached the page), while there were 4 different model ranges, the measurements only vary once, between the 250 and 300's. Also, the entirety of the difference happens between mounting points C and D (which are the final two outriggers of the 5 that run all in parallel. But additionally, the U brace (at B) and Z brace at A are 5" further back, which isn't possible on the shorter frame, so the side frame rails themselves would be different.
In summary, essentially if it's a 300 series frame, then the frame wouldn't work.
The point of reference seemed a bit arbitrary to me, but since measurement H is the same across both versions of the frame, I measured from H to C, and rather than dead center the hole, I figured that just going from the front of H to the back of C would tell me if it was 5" off or not.
On the Clipper frame that looks so pretty in the pictures above, the measurement from the outrigger at H and the one at C are 67" measured from outside to outside.
On the Caribbean frame, with the body mounted it's still easy to see where the outriggers bolt on, especially since a lot of the floor is rusted away there. :D From H to C, it measures 67" inches as well, so it confirms that the shorter version of the frame was used for the Caribbean as well. There is maybe an 1/8th inch steel plate welded to the bottom of the big X brace only. (Can't see the top yet.) The metal frame itself doesn't appear to be any thicker, but once the body's off, I can get a micrometer on it. Having stared at the thing for a few dozen hours wirewheeling and sandblasting though, I'd be prepared to vouch that it's not any different.
I know that it's not definitive, and I can't confirm if the outriggers are higher or lower, but they're all in the right place (which means they can be swapped if necessary.) I'll know more in a couple of weeks when I can brace the Caribbean body and get it off of the frame to measure and see the top.
Hopefully this info will help someone else one day, too.
So Mr Lincoln's not dead, but his suit will require a bit of easy tailoring. Now I'm glad my wife stopped me before I could paint the bottom of that frame, should make for an easy weld. :)
Attach file:
(84.89 KB)
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