Re: 1940 1808 Super Eight
Posted by HH56 On 2023/3/12 21:27:42
Quote:
This is probably the case on smaller engine models but need to be careful using your cranking button on a 40 and 41 with the 356 engine because if it has the Autolite starter with the 4 terminal solenoid and is still stock, the starter button wiring is a bit different from other models and years.
If the wiring is stock the starter button on a 40 and 41 with the Autolite starter is in the ground side of the starter safety circuit. You will need to verify some things before using your cranking switch.
If still original there should be a small metal jumper on the solenoid that could be painted over and hard to see or a short wire between the battery terminal on the solenoid and one of the two small control terminals on the solenoid located above the two larger terminals. Those two small terminals go to a relay coil inside the solenoid case. The other small terminal has a wire going to the starter button. Out of the starter button on a 40 will be another wire going to a fourth terminal on the voltage regulator labeled T. That terminal goes to an extra contact inside that provides the ground to the control relay inside the solenoid.
When the starter button is pushed ground gets to the relay in the solenoid and because battery voltage is already present on the other terminal, the relay works and solenoid engages so engine cranks. When the engine starts the generator and regulator starts working and opens the extra contact so ground is disconnected and the starter will no longer be able to operate until the engine quits. That is the safety circuit unique to engines with the Autolite gear reduction starter.
To use your cranking button you need to be absolutely sure the small terminal on the solenoid you connect the alligator clip to is not the one going to the battery terminal. Because the other alligator clip on the cranking button will go to chassis ground, if you connect to the wrong terminal it will be a direct short when you push the cranking button.
If you have a replacement 3 terminal regulator, instead of a fourth terminal the starter ground wire may be connected to the ARM or GEN terminal just as was done in 41 thru 1950 356 models which used the Autolite starter. In those models the ground is provided thru the coils in the generator. When the generator starts working voltage becomes present on the ARM terminal and with voltage there and the same voltage from the battery on the other terminal the solenoid cannot engage. To use the cranking button on that setup the wire to the button needs to be removed from the ARM terminal before connecting the cranking button or there could be another short when the engine starts and generator starts putting out voltage.
42 and later put the starter button or carb switch in the power side fed from ign switch and the small jumper on the solenoid was eliminated. Wile not done often, there have been some 40 and 41 cars converted so the starter button is like the 42s and is fed from the ign switch.
If issues with intermittent starting or the generator provided ground to the safety circuit developed a problem a lot of the circuits were bypassed by removing the wire from the fourth terminal or ARM terminals and going directly to ground. The jumper to the BAT terminal on the solenoid was still present on a 40 and 41.
Attach file:
40 Autolite solenoid.jpg (29.02 KB)
40 regulator and gen.jpg (207.21 KB)
41 and later ground to starter safety circuit.jpg (64.45 KB)
BigKev wrote:
The starter button clips can be hooked up to the two terminals on the starter. You just need to make sure the ignition is on also if you are testing for spark.
This is probably the case on smaller engine models but need to be careful using your cranking button on a 40 and 41 with the 356 engine because if it has the Autolite starter with the 4 terminal solenoid and is still stock, the starter button wiring is a bit different from other models and years.
If the wiring is stock the starter button on a 40 and 41 with the Autolite starter is in the ground side of the starter safety circuit. You will need to verify some things before using your cranking switch.
If still original there should be a small metal jumper on the solenoid that could be painted over and hard to see or a short wire between the battery terminal on the solenoid and one of the two small control terminals on the solenoid located above the two larger terminals. Those two small terminals go to a relay coil inside the solenoid case. The other small terminal has a wire going to the starter button. Out of the starter button on a 40 will be another wire going to a fourth terminal on the voltage regulator labeled T. That terminal goes to an extra contact inside that provides the ground to the control relay inside the solenoid.
When the starter button is pushed ground gets to the relay in the solenoid and because battery voltage is already present on the other terminal, the relay works and solenoid engages so engine cranks. When the engine starts the generator and regulator starts working and opens the extra contact so ground is disconnected and the starter will no longer be able to operate until the engine quits. That is the safety circuit unique to engines with the Autolite gear reduction starter.
To use your cranking button you need to be absolutely sure the small terminal on the solenoid you connect the alligator clip to is not the one going to the battery terminal. Because the other alligator clip on the cranking button will go to chassis ground, if you connect to the wrong terminal it will be a direct short when you push the cranking button.
If you have a replacement 3 terminal regulator, instead of a fourth terminal the starter ground wire may be connected to the ARM or GEN terminal just as was done in 41 thru 1950 356 models which used the Autolite starter. In those models the ground is provided thru the coils in the generator. When the generator starts working voltage becomes present on the ARM terminal and with voltage there and the same voltage from the battery on the other terminal the solenoid cannot engage. To use the cranking button on that setup the wire to the button needs to be removed from the ARM terminal before connecting the cranking button or there could be another short when the engine starts and generator starts putting out voltage.
42 and later put the starter button or carb switch in the power side fed from ign switch and the small jumper on the solenoid was eliminated. Wile not done often, there have been some 40 and 41 cars converted so the starter button is like the 42s and is fed from the ign switch.
If issues with intermittent starting or the generator provided ground to the safety circuit developed a problem a lot of the circuits were bypassed by removing the wire from the fourth terminal or ARM terminals and going directly to ground. The jumper to the BAT terminal on the solenoid was still present on a 40 and 41.
Attach file:
40 Autolite solenoid.jpg (29.02 KB) 40 regulator and gen.jpg (207.21 KB)
41 and later ground to starter safety circuit.jpg (64.45 KB)This Post was from: https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=254878